African knife figural West Africa

[Jim McDougall]

This item is essentially in knife form, modern and well made, but IMO too much so to be regarded souvenir. The blade is unfullered sheet steel without edges. (no picture unfortunately).
To me it seems West African, but it seems similar figure popularity of this kind filters into Congo as well and likely even further.

The curious design on the scabbard and the inlay of gold metal wire into wood (mahogany?) might be to particular tribal group?

Really need help from you guys specializing in African stuff.

[Pertinax]

Contemporary piece from Tanzania/Zanzibar.

Best regards,
Yuri

[Marc M.]

Hi Jim
Objects made for sale to tourists are often very skillfully made, even if they are of a high quality in terms of carving they are often made to appeal to tourists and have nothing to very little to do with cultural origins. So, in my opinion, does this object.
Best regards
Marc

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Pertinax and Marc very much for this information! It is surprising that this dagger is from the east in Tanzania and Zanzibar as I thought the figural art of the hilt resembled more of West African culture. It is also interesting that souvenir items are made with such quality. I am always amazed at the skill and craftsmanship of native artisans.

Is it possible that while apparently sold as souvenirs in these Tanzanian area outlets that the knives themselves might have come from West African sources?
Modern commercialism is of course global, but could these figure type knives have become more universally represented even with distant cultural ties?
Or as suggested, are such items simply aesthetic?

I have always studied arms from historical and ethnographic perspective, but these kinds of situations are perplexing in such research. It would be interesting to hear thoughts in this regard from those of you who study and collect in these ethnographic fields of the African continent.

Thank you again guys!
Jim

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Marc M.

Hi Jim
Objects made for sale to tourists are often very skillfully made, even if they are of a high quality in terms of carving they are often made to appeal to tourists and have nothing to very little to do with cultural origins. So, in my opinion, does this object.
Best regards
Marc

+100%

Souvenirs from Zanzibar

[Marc M.]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall;294275]Thank you Pertinax and Marc very much for this information! It is surprising that this dagger is from the east in Tanzania and Zanzibar as I thought the figural art of the hilt resembled more of West African culture. It is also interesting that souvenir items are made with such quality. I am always amazed at the skill and craftsmanship of native artisans.

Is it possible that while apparently sold as souvenirs in these Tanzanian area outlets that the knives themselves might have come from West African sources?
Modern commercialism is of course global, but could these figure type knives have become more universally represented even with distant cultural ties?
Or as suggested, are such items simply aesthetic?

I have always studied arms from historical and ethnographic perspective, but these kinds of situations are perplexing in such research. It would be interesting to hear thoughts in this regard from those of you who study and collect in these ethnographic fields of the African continent.

Thank you again guys!
Jim[/QU

[Marc M.]

[QUOTE=Marc M.;294286]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you Pertinax and Marc very much for this information! It is surprising that this dagger is from the east in Tanzania and Zanzibar as I thought the figural art of the hilt resembled more of West African culture. It is also interesting that souvenir items are made with such quality. I am always amazed at the skill and craftsmanship of native artisans.

Is it possible that while apparently sold as souvenirs in these Tanzanian area outlets that the knives themselves might have come from West African sources?
Modern commercialism is of course global, but could these figure type knives have become more universally represented even with distant cultural ties?
Or as suggested, are such items simply aesthetic?

I have always studied arms from historical and ethnographic perspective, but these kinds of situations are perplexing in such research. It would be interesting to hear thoughts in this regard from those of you who study and collect in these ethnographic fields of the African continent.

Thank you again guys!
Jim[/QU

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you Pertinax and Marc very much for this information! It is surprising that this dagger is from the east in Tanzania and Zanzibar as I thought the figural art of the hilt resembled more of West African culture. It is also interesting that souvenir items are made with such quality. I am always amazed at the skill and craftsmanship of native artisans.

Is it possible that while apparently sold as souvenirs in these Tanzanian area outlets that the knives themselves might have come from West African sources?
Modern commercialism is of course global, but could these figure type knives have become more universally represented even with distant cultural ties?
Or as suggested, are such items simply aesthetic?

I have always studied arms from historical and ethnographic perspective, but these kinds of situations are perplexing in such research. It would be interesting to hear thoughts in this regard from those of you who study and collect in these ethnographic fields of the African continent.

Thank you again guys!
Jim

Hi Jim, in an article I read once, don't ask me which one because forgot. As far as I can remember there are centers in Africa where products are made in large quantities for the tourist market. From fantasy pieces to faithful copies of masks, statues etc. These were then also sold to traders from all over Africa. As with many ethnographic objects, they were not always made where they were purchased, like your example it may have been made in a West African center.
Best regards
Marc

[Marc M.]

he two previous posts may be deleted, was clumsy again.

[Pertinax]

Zanzibar has very skilled wood carvers and a large selection of good wood. They produce a large number of different items; I visited several workshops and observed the manufacturing process. These are fantasy items that I showed, as well as Massai seme swords, Massai orkuma clubs (rungu, morani), spears, masks, various figurines. You can buy all this in every small tourist shop.

[werecow]

The center is a Kuba Ikul.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by werecow

The center is a Kuba Ikul.

Thanks, werecow!
I know, yes, it is Kuba Ikul, it just fits very well between the masks. I have to save space.

[Jim McDougall]

Guys thank you all again!
While disappointing to see that the potential for acquiring authentic old tribal items is nominal at best with these commercial items in circulation, it only encourages more study in depth to learn the nuances of original items.

Collecting has become far more daunting in all fields, so the expertise of all here who specialize in certain areas shared in discussion is incredibly valuable.
By learning what to look for with original items and awareness of 'products' in circulation we can better gauge our acquisitions.
As always, caveat emptor!