A Pair of Mexican Naval Swords

[drac2k]

I recently purchased a pair of swords that were attributed to the Mexican Navy.
The longer sword with the folding guard and the Eagle Head Pommel didn't look like the typical Mexican Eagle and I was unable to find a similar example until I stumbled on an example that was in the Texas Star of the Republic Museum, allegedly owned by Santa Anna's Naval Aid and Secretary, Ramon Martinez Caro.
The second sword was supposedly a naval cutlass and while it is a good length and shape to be such, I can not find a comparable example. It certainly is Mexican, it looks like it is a composite sword, made a long time ago, put together for whatever past need.

[Jim McDougall]

These are both fantastic swords!!!! and as you know I have an affinity for Spanish and Mexican swords we've been talking about for 10 years +

The first one is of course naval due to fouled anchor and the eagle and snake emblem of Republic of Mexico from post 1825. The similar sword (hilt) resembling this one and attributed to Ramon Martinez Caro must be from his career well past his attachment to Santa Anna during the Texas campaigns of `1836.
This type hilt is interesting as it incorporates the American eagle head pommel with the British 'gothic' style hilt of mid 19th c. and if not mistaken these were produced in Germany for Mexico and Latin American countries later in 19thc.
It seems that also in this time Ames (1850s+) was producing eagle head swords for Mexican army.

The second sword has the typical 'phrygian hat' type pommel of French M1822 cavalry sabers (later copied by US as the M1840). While these were known in late 1820s most are associated with later periods, especially with the RM mark and liberty hat with feather surround.....also the A.C. was a supplier in Mexico, A. Columbuzier, later in 19th c. and I think Mexico City.

Not sure why it would be deemed a cutlass though with regular cavalry blade.Attached example of my 'cutlass' c. 1870s + with same markings.

Also shown an Ames Mexican army hilt probably 1860s-70s and Mexican cavalry saber late 1820s -30s with Spanish motto blade.

[drac2k]

Thanks, Jim, as always your vast expertise is always appreciated!
I think that they may have called the shorter sword a cutlass because of the blade length which is only 23" long; also mine has more of a local flavor as the handle is horn.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks, Jim, as always your vast expertise is always appreciated!
I think that they may have called the shorter sword a cutlass because of the blade length which is only 23" long; also mine has more of a local flavor as the handle is horn.

Thanks David.....with the incredible scope of variation in these Spanish colonial and Mexican weapons its an endless learning process, which is why these are so fascinating.
I agree, the term cutlass has ever been tossed around pretty loosely, and even espada anchas are often termed cutlasses in descriptions, as noted in my paper of last year published in Sweden (but in English). Basically I guess, any shorter blade would qualify as a cutlass? but that becomes confusing due to the naval connotation
Whatever the case, there is a certain rustic charm with these Mexican swords that have been reworked, and that canted horn grip profoundly adds to it!

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

These are both fantastic swords!!!! and as you know I have an affinity for Spanish and Mexican swords we've been talking about for 10 years +

The first one is of course naval due to fouled anchor and the eagle and snake emblem of Republic of Mexico from post 1825. The similar sword (hilt) resembling this one and attributed to Ramon Martinez Caro must be from his career well past his attachment to Santa Anna during the Texas campaigns of `1836.
This type hilt is interesting as it incorporates the American eagle head pommel with the British 'gothic' style hilt of mid 19th c. and if not mistaken these were produced in Germany for Mexico and Latin American countries later in 19thc.
It seems that also in this time Ames (1850s+) was producing eagle head swords for Mexican army.

The second sword has the typical 'phrygian hat' type pommel of French M1822 cavalry sabers (later copied by US as the M1840). While these were known in late 1820s most are associated with later periods, especially with the RM mark and liberty hat with feather surround.....also the A.C. was a supplier in Mexico, A. Columbuzier, later in 19th c. and I think Mexico City.

Not sure why it would be deemed a cutlass though with regular cavalry blade.Attached example of my 'cutlass' c. 1870s + with same markings.

Also shown an Ames Mexican army hilt probably 1860s-70s and Mexican cavalry saber late 1820s -30s with Spanish motto blade.

The Ames eagle pommel and probably grip were of one, the blade another and the hilt a French Cutler, you can just make out the French cartouche. I see something new very time I revisit those files from Dave Parks site.

The naval officer sword has an almost enlarged Widmann type VI profile but I'm sure it was just influence

Cheers
GC

[Legendary_Jarl]

It's unfortunate that the Mexican military has been so cryptic with information regarding the army. If there were ever formal patterns of swords issued to officers at all that information is not readily available. Unfortunately as well, it has been prohibited since the 1917 constitution for civilians to own weapons exclusive to the army including lances, bayonets and swords like these. The interpretation has been recently changed to mean of any military. Needless to say I am so glad I left Mexico and I can now legally and freely collect whatever tf I want.

I think the top sword could have been made in Britain. Looks similar to 'Gothic hilted' British swords. I'd be curious to see if there was a significant trade of arms between Mexico and Britain in the early XIX century. When I went to Texas I was fortunate to be able to visit the site of the Battle of San Jacinto. There is a museum there that has many artifacts including a sword that they claim belonged to Santa Anna. Why would Santa Anna have a plain 1796 pattern British heavy cavalry sword? Doesn't make sense. They also had a bunch of items that had descriptions such as "This was cast from Silver taken from Santa Anna". And I'm like: "...suuure". By the way, I took a picture of a sword that has a similar hilt to yours but without the eagle. I don't remember if it was Mexican or American though.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Legendary_Jarl

It's unfortunate that the Mexican military has been so cryptic with information regarding the army. If there were ever formal patterns of swords issued to officers at all that information is not readily available. Unfortunately as well, it has been prohibited since the 1917 constitution for civilians to own weapons exclusive to the army including lances, bayonets and swords like these. The interpretation has been recently changed to mean of any military. Needless to say I am so glad I left Mexico and I can now legally and freely collect whatever tf I want.

I think the top sword could have been made in Britain. Looks similar to 'Gothic hilted' British swords. I'd be curious to see if there was a significant trade of arms between Mexico and Britain in the early XIX century. When I went to Texas I was fortunate to be able to visit the site of the Battle of San Jacinto. There is a museum there that has many artifacts including a sword that they claim belonged to Santa Anna. Why would Santa Anna have a plain 1796 pattern British heavy cavalry sword? Doesn't make sense. They also had a bunch of items that had descriptions such as "This was cast from Silver taken from Santa Anna". And I'm like: "...suuure". By the way, I took a picture of a sword that has a similar hilt to yours but without the eagle. I don't remember if it was Mexican or American though.

Indeed the 'Gothic' hilt style was found in some of these swords, in fact that 1822 design became popularly used on swords produced for many countries with the central cartouche having various devices etc, in place of the royal cypher.

It seems museums often embellish items displayed with 'interpretations' of lore and presumptions, though in many cases there may be a degree of factuality.
Remember that the Mexican army was supplied profoundly with surplus and many obsolete weapons from Great Britain at the end of the Napoleonic wars. Most of the guns were old British brown bess and Baker rifles sold to Mexico in huge volume.

As the British were on campaign through Spain in these wars, many British swords among of course other materials were there. If I recall these heavy cavalry swords were said to have been produced in Portugal.
It does not seem unusual that various British pattern swords turned up in North America in these times, as well as of course in Mexico.

The 1796 light cavalry sabers were used in many cases by militia units, during the war of 1812 and later, and were often found in trading posts on the plains and with many Indian tribes.
While the more cumbersome heavy cavalry swords were not as popular, it is not surprising that some might turn up in these contexts.

As for Santa Anna having one? uh, thats reaching. This guy was so totally flamboyant I cannot imagine him having one of these, for any reason.
But, in typical hyperbole, it seems virtually everything of this period and of types associated in any way with these events was CONNECTED to Santa Anna.