Non Regulation British Pattern 1831 Mameluke

Cathey · 21st July 2019, 06:11 AM

Hi Guys, looking for some help with this sword.

Nationality: British
Date: Probably Post 1898
Overall Length: Overall Length 40 1/2” 120.9 cm Sword Only 38” 96.4 cm
Blade length: 33” 83.9 cm
Blade widest point: 1 1/8” 2.8 cm
Hilt widest point: 4 ½” 11.4 cm
Inside grip length: 3 ½” 8.8 cm
Marks, etc: Both scabbard mounts have what looks like hall marks, and the German retailer Putsch Sohn are on the blade under the cross guard.

General Description
This sword appears to be a variation on the Pattern 1831- Mameluke General & Staff Officer Sword. It has non regulation white metal/silver mounts with silver fittings, parade polished scabbard with unusual silver suspension rings and bands bearing hall marks. Plain double fullered highly polished blade. Plain studs instead of decorative rosettes to the Ivory hilt, in good condition with minor chip. Two small holes are between the studs on one side indicating that something may have been attached to the grip at some stage.

Under the cross guard at the top of the blade on one side is what appears to be the number 4700 and on the other what appears to be Putsch Sohn. C Putsch Sohn was a retailer in Solingen around 1830-1870.

I am of the view that the marks on the scabbard probably relate to the sword manufacturer, but I have been unable to identify them. This one has us scratching our heads, hence I am posting it here hoping that someone may have seen one like this before or have some idea what either the marks of odd assortment of letters signify.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

Richard G · 21st July 2019, 08:55 PM

Those 'hallmarks' are certainly not British.
They look possibly islamic.
Regards
Richard

David R · 22nd July 2019, 01:41 PM

My guess is for a recent production (pre current troubles), from Syria and made for the KSA and nearby states dance or wedding market. https://www.thenational.ae/world/gcc...tures-1.706657

Cathey · 24th July 2019, 04:36 AM

Sorry Guys, but its a brittish pattern sword.

The hilt has the crossed Sword and Batton for the 1831 pattern British Mamaluke and the retailer has been identifed at German 1830-1860. In the 1860's these General and Staff officer swords where sometimes produdced in steel rather than brass. This one appears to have been a special order given the elaborate scabbard bands and the pin holds indicating it would have had a dedication plark at some stage. The marks look typically german, however I am yet to attribute them to a particular maker. looks like I will need to continue plodding through my german books on Soligen.

Cheers Cathey

David R · 24th July 2019, 11:46 AM

No need to be sorry, good to have the update and more information.

21st July 2019, 06:11 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Non Regulation British Pattern 1831 Mameluke Hi Guys, looking for some help with this sword. Nationality: British Date: Probably Post 1898 Overall Length: Overall Length 40 1/2” 120.9 cm Sword Only 38” 96.4 cm Blade length: 33” 83.9 cm Blade widest point: 1 1/8” 2.8 cm Hilt widest point: 4 ½” 11.4 cm Inside grip length: 3 ½” 8.8 cm Marks, etc: Both scabbard mounts have what looks like hall marks, and the German retailer Putsch Sohn are on the blade under the cross guard. General Description This sword appears to be a variation on the Pattern 1831- Mameluke General & Staff Officer Sword. It has non regulation white metal/silver mounts with silver fittings, parade polished scabbard with unusual silver suspension rings and bands bearing hall marks. Plain double fullered highly polished blade. Plain studs instead of decorative rosettes to the Ivory hilt, in good condition with minor chip. Two small holes are between the studs on one side indicating that something may have been attached to the grip at some stage. Under the cross guard at the top of the blade on one side is what appears to be the number 4700 and on the other what appears to be Putsch Sohn. C Putsch Sohn was a retailer in Solingen around 1830-1870. I am of the view that the marks on the scabbard probably relate to the sword manufacturer, but I have been unable to identify them. This one has us scratching our heads, hence I am posting it here hoping that someone may have seen one like this before or have some idea what either the marks of odd assortment of letters signify. Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

24th July 2019, 04:36 AM	#4
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	It's definitley British Sorry Guys, but its a brittish pattern sword. The hilt has the crossed Sword and Batton for the 1831 pattern British Mamaluke and the retailer has been identifed at German 1830-1860. In the 1860's these General and Staff officer swords where sometimes produdced in steel rather than brass. This one appears to have been a special order given the elaborate scabbard bands and the pin holds indicating it would have had a dedication plark at some stage. The marks look typically german, however I am yet to attribute them to a particular maker. looks like I will need to continue plodding through my german books on Soligen. Cheers Cathey

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21st July 2019, 08:55 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 405	Those 'hallmarks' are certainly not British. They look possibly islamic. Regards Richard

22nd July 2019, 01:41 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	My guess is for a recent production (pre current troubles), from Syria and made for the KSA and nearby states dance or wedding market. https://www.thenational.ae/world/gcc...tures-1.706657

24th July 2019, 11:46 AM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	No need to be sorry, good to have the update and more information.