SOUTH INDIAN PISTOL

[BANDOOK]

JUST BOUGHT THIS HOLSTER PISTOL CIRCA MID 1800,SUCH PISTOLS WERE COMMON TO MYSORE REGION OF KARNATAKA FROM WHERE TIPPU SULTAN WAS BASED AND STARTED MANY GUN FACTORYS FOR HIS ARMY,THESE COME UP IN AUCTIONS IN THE U.K ,BUT SELDOM IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD,SO WAS HAPPY TO ACQUIRE ONE FOR MY COLLECTION.THE PISTOL IS QUIET COMPLETE BUT MISSING THE TRIGGER GUARD.
HAVE NOT SEEN MUCH OF THESE GUNS DISCUSSED IN THE FORUM SO WOULD APPRECIATE MORE INFORMATION FOR OUR MEMBERS
KIND REGARDS RAJESH

[Kubur]

Hi Rajesh,

Your Indian pistol is really beautifull and massive.
This model is well known and discussed by Elgood.
I think there is one like that in Tirri too.
I would like to have some information about the nice and strange barrel...

Best,
Kubur

[BANDOOK]

THANKS KUBUR
MY FRIEND RANJEET OF AAKAL ARMS SAID THAT THESE ARE ALWAYS REFFERED AS SOUTH INDIAN BUT NOT MUCH HAS BEEN RESEARCHED SAYING ABOUT THEM,LETS WAIT WHAT OTHERS HAVE TO SAY
KIND REGARDS
RAJESH

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

THANKS KUBUR
MY FRIEND RANJEET OF AAKAL ARMS SAID THAT THESE ARE ALWAYS REFFERED AS SOUTH INDIAN BUT NOT MUCH HAS BEEN RESEARCHED SAYING ABOUT THEM,LETS WAIT WHAT OTHERS HAVE TO SAY
KIND REGARDS
RAJESH

I might be wrong but the muzzle looks like some Omani abu fillia barrels.
And Elgood said that they were Persians.
I won't be surprised if someone says that your barrel is Persian...
Again I don't think that the trigger guard is missing, lot of these pistols had no trigger guards.

[BANDOOK]

Thanks Kubur you are right ,good observation the barrel looks like a Omani AF ,As I have not seen such examples posted in the forum so would be good to know more about these pistols,regards Rajesh

[rickystl]

Hi Bandook.

Now that's an interesting pistol. Here in the States you don't often see PISTOLS with Indian origin. The percussion lock looks like it was copied from the British Enfield pattern, but maybe a bit smaller for pistol size. Same with the percussion bolster. So both those items might also be clues to Indian origin. The barrel with multiple flutes at the muzzle is really neat. Don't believe I've seen another like it.
As Kubur mentions, the gun could very well have been made without a trigger guard. If there is no evidence that a guard was ever installed, then this is liely the case.
Again, a really interesting pistol you don't often see. Congratulations.

Rick

[Kubur]

Normaly these guns have a kind of blunderbluss muzzle...
Is it possible that the barrel was a replacement?
And Rick, what do you think about the barrel, is it Indian, or something else (Persian)?
Thanks

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Bandook.

Now that's an interesting pistol. Here in the States you don't often see PISTOLS with Indian origin. The percussion lock looks like it was copied from the British Enfield pattern, but maybe a bit smaller for pistol size. Same with the percussion bolster. So both those items might also be clues to Indian origin. The barrel with multiple flutes at the muzzle is really neat. Don't believe I've seen another like it.
As Kubur mentions, the gun could very well have been made without a trigger guard. If there is no evidence that a guard was ever installed, then this is liely the case.
Again, a really interesting pistol you don't often see. Congratulations.

Rick

THANKS RICK,AN INDIAN PISTOL WAS MISSING IN MY COLLECTION SO WAS A GOOD ADDITION
THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS
REGARDS RAJESH

[BANDOOK]

AM POSTING ANOTHER PICTURE OF A INDIAN PISTOL WITH PERCUSSION CAP AND HAMMER ON THE SAME LINES

[Pukka Bundook]

Interesting pistol in the O.P!

When I first saw it, I too thought the barrel came from an Omani/Persian long arm. It appears narrower at the breech, so believe it is a cut -down barrel re-used.
I recently found examples of these A-F barrels, but stocked up in Northern India, (Afghan style mostly, ) so whether they are Persian, or came from other parts of India I do not know. Trade could well account for them being up North.

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Interesting pistol in the O.P!

When I first saw it, I too thought the barrel came from an Omani/Persian long arm. It appears narrower at the breech, so believe it is a cut -down barrel re-used.
I recently found examples of these A-F barrels, but stocked up in Northern India, (Afghan style mostly, ) so whether they are Persian, or came from other parts of India I do not know. Trade could well account for them being up North.

Thanks Pukka Bundook

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Normaly these guns have a kind of blunderbluss muzzle...
Is it possible that the barrel was a replacement?
And Rick, what do you think about the barrel, is it Indian, or something else (Persian)?
Thanks

Hi Kubur.

I agree with Pukka here. It looks like a section of barrel that was cut short from both the breech and muzzle ends, and then re-breached. Curious the long breech plug tang. Sort of like a Caucassian pistol.
Of course we know in this area of the world how often barrels, locks, etc. were recycled to make anything that would shoot. You never see any two alike. But you can often trace the origins from the decoration. But not always. It seems some have a confluence of cultures in it's decoration. Probably due to trade and other influences.

Rick

[rickystl]

BUMP !!!!

I was going to start a new Thread, but then remembered fellow Forum member, Bandook had started this Thread on South Indian pistols. So I used the Search function which brought up his original post from this month - a year ago. So, I thought I would just continue the conversation.

Here is a recent aquisition I bought from Auctions Imperial about 3/4 auctions ago. Notice how similar this pistol looks to the one Kubur posted above from Oriental Arms. Even the lock.
When I received the pistol there were only two issues (that I knew beforehand)
1. LOCK: The top screw was slightly bent, and the frizzen was not quite flush while covering the pan. So the Locksmith made the fixes and tuned the lock. It now works/sparks great.
2. STOCK: The front ramrod pipe was missing as well as the ramrod. So I had a new pipe made to match the rear. It turned out to be an almost dead-ringer to the rear pipe. Had a new iron and wood rod made to match.

So this small bit of restoration has the pistol looking much better now. Thanks for looking. Picture heavy as usual. LOL

Rick

[rickystl]

MORE PICS........Check out how close the new front ramrod pipe matches the original rear pipe.

[rickystl]

ONE MORE OF THE NEW RAMRODS......It's a "false" rod and doesn't travel the length of the barrel due to the over-sized locks used in these pistols.

[Kubur]

Congrats Rick!
Very nice pistol
The butt is unusual for this kind of pistol, do you think its a late addition?

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Congrats Rick!
Very nice pistol
The butt is unusual for this kind of pistol, do you think its a late addition?

Hi Kubur

Thanks for your comments. The gunsmith did a good job. Turned out well.

The butt cap does look a bit plain for these pistols. If it was a replacement, it would have been done back in the period. It's not a casting. It's hand made and heavy. Would work well for a dual purpose club. LOL The patina matches the rest of the brass mounts. There is a tiny, period wood repair on the inside of the grip near the butt cap that was well executed. Maybe the cap was removed/replaced during the repair (?) But the butt cap is old, and was well fitted. So I believe it is legit.

Rick

[BANDOOK]

HELLO RICK
YES,THIS PISTOL YOU HAVE POSTED IS SIMILAR TO MINE,BUT WITH A FEW DIFFERNCES ESPECIALLY THE BALL BUTT WHICH ONE SEES IN CAUCASIAN PISTOLS
GOOD FIND
REGARDS
RAJESH