Luzon daga, wavy blade

[Sajen]

I am the new owner of this large Luzon daga or kris. Brass mounts with horn handle, laminated (?) slightly waved blade and worn leather scabbard. Overall 17 3/4''. Before I give my own age guess I would like to read what others think. Would also be very interesting what you think from where on Luzon this piece coming. Strong Spanish influence I think. Pictures from the seller.

[Roland_M]

Hi Detlef,

nice find!

If you want, we can try out together, whether laminated or not, during your next visit.

Maybe I have a surprise for you next time and the pala sword is on its way without request.


Best wishes,
Roland

p.s. whats going on with your mobile?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hi Detlef,

nice find!

If you want, we can try out together, whether laminated or not, during your next visit.

Maybe I have a surprise for you next time and the pala sword is on its way without request.


Best wishes,
Roland

p.s. whats going on with your mobile?

Hi Roland,

thank you! Just send you a pm.

Best regards,
Detlef

[russel]

I was watching this one, a beauty. Congratulations

[David]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

If you want, we can try out together, whether laminated or not, during your next visit.

I'm confused. What are those lines on the blade if not lamination lines?
Nice looking dagger.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by David

I'm confused. What are those lines on the blade if not lamination lines?
Nice looking dagger.

Exactly!

It looks quite... laminated to me.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

I'm confused. What are those lines on the blade if not lamination lines?
Nice looking dagger.

Thank you David, Russel and Marius for comment! I think as well that there are lamination lines visible, but could be from the light, I am unsure.
Any age guesses?

Regards,
Detlef

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by David

I'm confused. What are those lines on the blade if not lamination lines?
Nice looking dagger.

An etched fake damascus pattern for example.

I have only found a picture of faux wootz.

[Ian]

Hi Detlef:

Very nice knife. Perhaps Philippines First Republic period (1899–1901) or thereabouts. A strong Spanish influence in the hilt, as noted previously. This one could be Ilocano or from Central Luzon--I favor Ilocano.

Ian.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you David, Russel and Marius for comment! I think as well that there are lamination lines visible, but could be from the light, I am unsure.
Any age guesses?

Regards,
Detlef

Definitely not from the light!

Wost case scenario, they might be etched/engraved to mimic pattern welding but I still believe it is genuine lamination.

It will be very easy to establish once you have it and examine it closely.

[David]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

An etched fake damascus pattern for example.

I have only found a picture of faux wootz.

Roland, i am quite aware that people create fake patterns on blades such as this fake wootz that you show here. However, i have never seen anyone fake these simple lamination lines (usually it is more complicated patterns) which is probably why you had a hard time finding a photo depicting that.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by David

Roland, i am quite aware that people create fake patterns on blades such as this fake wootz that you show here. However, i have never seen anyone fake these simple lamination lines (usually it is more complicated patterns) which is probably why you had a hard time finding a photo depicting that.

Well, I have seen fake lamination lines on Chinese Jian swords, trying to immitate the "San Mai" (triple-steel) structure... but that was the only instance.

That's why I am pretty sure this is genuinely laminated.

Have a nice weekend!...

... even if we continue the debate

[David]

Well, the debate won't continue for long. Detlef will be sure as soon as it gets into his hands.
That said, i have never seen fake lamination on Filipino blades, at least not an obviously vintage example such as this. My guess is that Detlef didn't take too big a risk going for this on.

[Battara]

I'm with Ian on this one - First Republic era and Ilocano.

I too was watching this one...........

Congrats Detlef!

[Sajen]

First, thank you all for comment! I agree, it seems to be a clearly lamination what we can see by some pictures. Either this dagger coming from a well cared collection or it is in an outstanding good original condition. Would be interesting to know this since it would give us some understanding about if laminated blades from Luzon get etched originally.
Ian and Jose, thank you both very much for your age and origin guesses. Yes, I gree that this dagger coming from the First Republic area and could be an Ilocano piece. An other origin could be Cental Luzon like Ian suggest as well, a possibility also because the strong Spanish influence in the hilt.
I am happy that my age guess was most probable correct. I've searched in old threads but don't find a similar one for comparison, appearance and size. When someone would be able to show a similar one I would be very grateful.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Battara]

Here is mine, which says on the back "Ilocos Norte":

[carlos]

Congratulations Detlef! ! Is a great adquisition to your collection! !!
Is wish you enjoy it !
Y
Thanks for sharing
Carlos

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Here is mine, which says on the back "Ilocos Norte":

Yes, your very nice example which was once part of the Macao exhibition was the only example which shows some resemblance to my example. It is also with 52,5 cm somewhat longer as my one with 45 cm.
Thank you very much for post it again for comparison.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by carlos

Congratulations Detlef! ! Is a great adquisition to your collection! !!
Is wish you enjoy it !
Y
Thanks for sharing
Carlos

Thank you very much Carlos! I will certainly do.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Here is mine, which says on the back "Ilocos Norte":

Here the description which was once given to your very nice example:


209.
Insurrection Katipunan Dagger
Ilokano tribe, Ilocos Norte, Northeastern Luzon Island. At base of blade there is an engraved triangle with a star at each corner and a sun with a face in the middle and worn remains of a banner with “Liberitad” (“Liberty” in Spanish). The triangular device is a later Katipunan symbol officially used during the Republic of the Philippines from 1898-1901. On the other side are engraved the words “Filipinas”, Philippines in Spanish (the country name in use at the turn of the century), “Ylocos Norte” (the province) and “Laoag” (the capital of Ilocos Norte). The hilt is made of carabao horn with a top and bottom ferrule made of bronze.
Note: this is a rarer type of dagger not often seen.
Period: 1898-1901
Overall: 52.5 cm
Blade: 38 cm
Hilt: 14.5 cm
Scabbard: none

[Robert]

Hello Detlef, This dagger is a real beauty and will make a wonderful new addition for your ever growing collection. I must say that the blade definitely looks to be of laminated construction to me as well. Having this much Spanish influence showing in its styling and overall appearance (especially the way the hilt is constructed of stacked horn sections with metal spacers) I will agree with Ian on a Central Luzon origin for this piece. As Manila was under Spanish control for over 400 years their influence would most likely show more heavily in an item like this than it might in other areas of Luzon. JMHO My congratulation to you on yet another great score.

Best,
Robert

[Sajen]

Hello Robert,

thank you very much for your educated comment which makes a lot of sense. It seems that we all agree that this piece shows a lot of Spanish influence.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

After the dagger has arrived at its destination was found that the tang was bend a little and some horn sections was cracked. Robert has opened the riveted tang, closed the cracks and straighten the tang. Here some pictures.

[Battara]

Nice work!

Detlev, would you show close ups of the blade please?

[Sajen]

Hello Jose,

I can't! The dagger is still by Robert but he told me that someone has overpolished the blade after the pictures from the seller were taken.
Maybe Robert will take some pictures the next few days. It seems that I will have still some work with it when I have it in my hands.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Robert]

As long as the weather holds I should be able to send you a few new photos of the entire dagger tomorrow.

Best,
Robert

[Sajen]

Thank you!

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Detlev, would you show close ups of the blade please?

Here a few pictures from the complete dagger and some close ups.

BTW, Robert hasn't polished the blade, funnily it arrives like this. I think a little bit overpolished.