An early ottoman pistol ?

[Raf]

Anyone brave enough to take a stab at dating this one ? And perhaps give an opinion on wether the dating criterion we might apply to European firearms ( lock shape , lack of frizzen bridle , cock detail etc ) still apply .

[rickystl]

Hi Raf.
Nice looking old pistol. Four questions:
1. Does the ramrod hole go all the way through to the breech end of the barrel?
2. Is the rear of the triggerguard fastened with screws or pinned to the stock? Or simply nailed in?
3. Do you have a pic of the butt cap?
4. Does the front barrel band look original to the gun?

Thanks, Rick.

[BANDOOK]

HI RAF RICK AND KUBUR BEST EXPERTS ON THIS TOPIC,AM SURE THEY LOVE THESE GUNS AND ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS BEST ,CHEERS

[Raf]

Hi .
1. The ramrod doesn't go all the way through but it is a detachable rod ; not just carved in the stock
2. Its nailed
3 . Attached. Note what was a rather well executed pierced side plate ; the front section of this is a working life repair.
4. It's the usual tatty bent tin which is old but not I assume original . Forend is mostly present so the original barrel band must have been similar.
Thanks for your interest.

[Kubur]

Hey! I'm not an expert, I'm like the others members, just a collector!

I would say Balkans, Ottoman, around 1840, common pistol.
All best,
Kubur

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Raf

Hi .
1. The ramrod doesn't go all the way through but it is a detachable rod ; not just carved in the stock
2. Its nailed
3 . Attached. Note what was a rather well executed pierced side plate ; the front section of this is a working life repair.
4. It's the usual tatty bent tin which is old but not I assume original . Forend is mostly present so the original barrel band must have been similar.
Thanks for your interest.

Hi Raf.
Thanks for your answers. Finally getting back to yourThread here.
This is a really tough one to date. Assuming there is not something lodged at the bottom of the ramrod hole, the short length, false ramrod (one of the two methods) and the rear of the trigger guard being nailed to the stock versus screws or horizontal pins, tells me this is an Ottoman pistol.
However, the lock, barrel (especially the tang), and iron castings look European made. The barrel engraving looks generic Ottoman. The lock with it's banana shaped plate, early style internals, lack of frizzen spring arm, and coffin shapped frizzen, looks European, first third of the 18th Century. In fact, the coffin style frizzen even dates to English dog lock pistols per-1700.
There's no serations on the frizzen that was popular with Ottoman pistols, but I've seen examples that were not. But many of the early European lock styling characteristics carried over to the Ottoman pistols well into the 19th Century. The lack of a frizzen to pan arm being a common one.
Therefore, I think this pistol falls in one of two catagories. 1. It was entirely European made, for local Regional tastes, and exported for resale. Or 2. The lock, barrel, and hardware were exported for assembly locally. And I'm leaning towards the second scenario. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and date this pistol right around 1800, or a bit sooner. I think it's one of the earlier examples of the export pistols.
It seems at some point around the turn of the 19th Century, these Ottoman pistols took on many styling cues of pre-1740 French and Dutch horse pistols.
Rick.