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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 91
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Provenance and age on this kris please?
Pommel is made of carabao horn. Sword's Dimensions: OAL: 25" Blade:18 1/2" Width: 1 1/4" Thickness:1/2" |
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#2 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
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I believe you and I have discussed this in the past. I would guess Tausug and late 19th century.
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
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Jose, given the smaller size and the straigth line of the gangya, couldn't this be a somewhat older kris than that?
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#4 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 91
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Battara, Yes we have, I happened to include this kris on group of sword photos that I posted and revised yesterday. Someone saw it, and ask me if I could post it again. |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 327
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If you look to what Cato writes in Moro Swords, I would think this is what he refers to as a "cross-over" between both the Maranao and Maguindanao. That really doesn't make sence to me, I tend to think it might be better to accept it just as a Mindanao kris, at least untill someone comes up with a better theory. In my opinion, the file work is somewhat a indicator of age. Although there is so many variables, in general, I think the better the file work, the newer it is. My guess at age would be early 19thC.
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#6 | |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
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By the way, I also have an early 17th century kris that has a small head, smaller thinner blade with elongated waves (luk or luks), mechanical damascus central panel, and deep chiseling at the base of the blade (thanks Rsword ![]() ![]() The waves on this kris are not the type seen on early Moro kris, although it is possible that the blade is older than the pommel. |
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#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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![]() ![]() I'm sure there are forumites who have an old, unused digicam lying around which they could sponsor in exchange for more forum pics from Battara... ![]() (I'm working with a "vintage" second generation model myself, no problems.) Regards, Kai |
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#8 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
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Certainly one of the biggest problems in the study of these swords is that everyone is somewhat dependant in Cato as the main point of authority. This is not to say that he is necessarily wrong, but we certainly need more reference books on the subject. How 'bout it boys! (you know who i'm talkin' to) ![]() I am glad you made your last statement because i have some doubts that this junggayan is original to the blade, so it could be a poor indicator of age and/or origin. |
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#9 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
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This one has a "beefier" blade and shallower luk than I would expect to see on an early 19th C. Mindanao kris. I agree with Nechesh that the hilt looks like a later replacement on a fairly old blade.
Nice example. Thanks for sharing it with us, Punal. |
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 221
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Re: kris timeline- the heavy scholarly research was done by Najeeb M. Saleeby, Cesar Adib Majul, James F. Warren and Ruurdje Laarhoven etc. but details need to be sifted and referenced as their works relate to the evolution of the kris. An interesting find, deals with William Dampier the explorer pirate as he sailed Mindanao in the 17th century, his crew was attacked by natives with kris in which they "hacked and stabbed", this points to the archaic type at least existing during the period.
My question to keris collectors would be the historical relationship of Mindanao and Sulu to Malacca, Johore and Sumatra because the Muslim royals trace their heritage to these regions in the early 16th century. Any scholarly books you can cite would be of help. |
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