Indonesian Sword ?

Royston · 5th July 2012, 05:04 PM

Bought from a bad photo from an auction catalogue. I thought it was a Balato from the photo.
Now I don't know what this is.

O/A length is 24 ins with a 19 1/2 ins blade
Blade is 3/16 ins near the hilt.
Blade is not sharpened for the last 4 ins near the hilt.
What I like about it is the interesting carved fish or serpent-like wooden pommel and the unusual tip to the blade. ( sorry. out of focus but it shows the shape )

The scabbard may be later but it fits ok. The straps are aluminium.

So, what do we have ? As I see it. The blade is a bit Balato shaped but sharpened on the wrong side and the tip is wrong.
Pommel reminds me a little of Visayan ( Monster hilt )
The brass part of the hilt is a little like Morut work.
Scabbard is the most Nias part of it.

All suggestions will be welcomed.
Thanks
Roy

Sajen · 5th July 2012, 07:10 PM

Hi Roy,

to my opinion it is a Balato and the blade seems ok to my eyes, have a look to "Traditional Weapons o. t. Indonesian Archipelago" from Albert G. van Zonneveld, page 29. My guess is that it is one from North Nias and not very old, maybe 1940-1950. It seems that Balatos have been in use for ceremonys also long after headhunting times. This is all my guess and others could have different opinions.

Regards,

Detlef

VANDOO · 5th July 2012, 07:27 PM

THE SAME TWO FEATURES THAT YOU LIKE ALSO APPEAL TO ME. I HAVE SEEN THAT FORM OF BLADE AND TIP SOMEWHERE BUT CAN'T PLACE IT. I VOTE FOR SUMATRA AND IF NOT NIAS THEN SOMEWHERE IN THAT AREA OF SUMATRA. TOO BAD THE ORIGINAL SCABBARD IS LONG GONE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKELY TO HAVE HAD SOME MORE CARVINGS THAT MIGHT HAVE HELPED IDENTIFY THE SWORD. A NICE CATCH AS IS BUT WE ALWAYS TEND TO WISH FOR MORE

I SEE ALL THE SIMULARITYS YOU MENTION. IT ALWAYS MAKES ME WONDER IF THE IDEAS AND FORMS OCCURED INDEPENDENTLY MANY TIMES IN DIFFERENT REGIONS OR IF THEY WERE INTRODUCED BY SAILING TRIBES THRUOUT THESE REGIONS IN THE ANCIENT TIMES. A VERY NICE SWORD I AM ENVIOUS.

Atlantia · 5th July 2012, 09:09 PM

Yup.
I'm also going with Nias. I had a Balato with the same distinctive blade shape.
Hilt styles vary widely on Nias swords.

Battara · 6th July 2012, 02:37 AM

Are the bands on your piece aluminum?

kai · 6th July 2012, 09:00 AM

Hello Jose:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royston

The scabbard may be later but it fits ok. The straps are aluminium.

Hello Roy,

I'm with Detlef and the others: definitely a balato. These are still in current production on Nias and mainly used for dances as well as tribal acoutrements for the local actors showing off village life for the many visitors. Of course, these are also available as souvenirs.

I'm fairly sure that this is post-WW2 and possibly quite a bit younger (the scabbard could easily be very recent). There's little apart from patina and wear (and, if any, reasonable provenance) to date these though. The blade looks better than the many beaten up pieces around; trying to etch it wouldn't hurt, I guess.

BTW, has anyone noticed any high-end examples coming out of the Balinese forgery stalls? (Not an issue with the basic examples which will be cheaper to buy on Nias for resale in Indonesia or internationally.)

Regards,
Kai

Royston · 6th July 2012, 05:35 PM

Thanks for the information and comments. I don't think that there is any doubt about the origin now.

Atlantia, it definitely looks like the 4th on in your photo. Which book is this from ?

I have also just thought to look through Le Armi dei Nias ( One of Arjans downloads ) and figures 53/54 are similar.

As stated, it does not look particularly old, but is well made.
For comparison I have included photos of two more from my collection. The one with the intact " ball" is definitely old.

Cheers
Roy

Atlantia · 7th July 2012, 02:22 PM

Hi Roy,
have a look at this one of Bills. It has a lot of similarities to yours.

The picture from the book was fomr this old thread. Barry might know the origin if you PM him (with a link it was a while back).
Is the blade laminated? Might be worth checking.

The hilt is a simplified beast head, a 'Lasara'. Again these vary from fully formed 'monster heads' through to more stylised forms like the one that I had that looks almost like a bird of piece of flora.

Here's another one with a similar blade to yours but an unusual hilt form.
http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/kle...le05balato.htm

Here is a good thread showing some more 'beastly' hilts.

Best
Gene

5th July 2012, 05:04 PM	#1
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Indonesian Sword ? Bought from a bad photo from an auction catalogue. I thought it was a Balato from the photo. Now I don't know what this is. O/A length is 24 ins with a 19 1/2 ins blade Blade is 3/16 ins near the hilt. Blade is not sharpened for the last 4 ins near the hilt. What I like about it is the interesting carved fish or serpent-like wooden pommel and the unusual tip to the blade. ( sorry. out of focus but it shows the shape ) The scabbard may be later but it fits ok. The straps are aluminium. So, what do we have ? As I see it. The blade is a bit Balato shaped but sharpened on the wrong side and the tip is wrong. Pommel reminds me a little of Visayan ( Monster hilt ) The brass part of the hilt is a little like Morut work. Scabbard is the most Nias part of it. All suggestions will be welcomed. Thanks Roy Attached Images

5th July 2012, 09:09 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Yup. I'm also going with Nias. I had a Balato with the same distinctive blade shape. Hilt styles vary widely on Nias swords. Attached Images

6th July 2012, 05:35 PM	#7
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Thanks for the information and comments. I don't think that there is any doubt about the origin now. Atlantia, it definitely looks like the 4th on in your photo. Which book is this from ? I have also just thought to look through Le Armi dei Nias ( One of Arjans downloads ) and figures 53/54 are similar. As stated, it does not look particularly old, but is well made. For comparison I have included photos of two more from my collection. The one with the intact " ball" is definitely old. Cheers Roy Attached Images

7th July 2012, 02:22 PM	#8
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Roy, have a look at this one of Bills. It has a lot of similarities to yours. The picture from the book was fomr this old thread. Barry might know the origin if you PM him (with a link it was a while back). Is the blade laminated? Might be worth checking. The hilt is a simplified beast head, a 'Lasara'. Again these vary from fully formed 'monster heads' through to more stylised forms like the one that I had that looks almost like a bird of piece of flora. Here's another one with a similar blade to yours but an unusual hilt form. http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/kle...le05balato.htm Here is a good thread showing some more 'beastly' hilts. Best Gene Last edited by Atlantia; 7th July 2012 at 02:36 PM.

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5th July 2012, 07:10 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Hi Roy, to my opinion it is a Balato and the blade seems ok to my eyes, have a look to "Traditional Weapons o. t. Indonesian Archipelago" from Albert G. van Zonneveld, page 29. My guess is that it is one from North Nias and not very old, maybe 1940-1950. It seems that Balatos have been in use for ceremonys also long after headhunting times. This is all my guess and others could have different opinions. Regards, Detlef

5th July 2012, 07:27 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE SAME TWO FEATURES THAT YOU LIKE ALSO APPEAL TO ME. I HAVE SEEN THAT FORM OF BLADE AND TIP SOMEWHERE BUT CAN'T PLACE IT. I VOTE FOR SUMATRA AND IF NOT NIAS THEN SOMEWHERE IN THAT AREA OF SUMATRA. TOO BAD THE ORIGINAL SCABBARD IS LONG GONE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKELY TO HAVE HAD SOME MORE CARVINGS THAT MIGHT HAVE HELPED IDENTIFY THE SWORD. A NICE CATCH AS IS BUT WE ALWAYS TEND TO WISH FOR MORE I SEE ALL THE SIMULARITYS YOU MENTION. IT ALWAYS MAKES ME WONDER IF THE IDEAS AND FORMS OCCURED INDEPENDENTLY MANY TIMES IN DIFFERENT REGIONS OR IF THEY WERE INTRODUCED BY SAILING TRIBES THRUOUT THESE REGIONS IN THE ANCIENT TIMES. A VERY NICE SWORD I AM ENVIOUS.

6th July 2012, 02:37 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Are the bands on your piece aluminum?