Singa barong

Sajen · 28th January 2011, 09:05 PM

Hello members,

this keris is already long in my possession. I have got it with this sheath which isn't apparently the original one but I changed the pendok blewah and handle inclusive selut and mendak to better ones because both have been simple. I like to read your estimation if the blade is old with the singa barong or if you think that the singa is a later addition or if you think that the complete blade is recent and artificially altered to look old since I am very unsure about this. I byself can't see any indication that the singa is a later addition.
Every comment is very welcome,

Detlef

Marcokeris · 28th January 2011, 09:49 PM

Hello Detlef
I like a lot your keris (also sarong, rings, pendok and hilt). IMO the blade is OLD ....and singa too. Maybe gold work has been done in a second time

Sajen · 28th January 2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Hello Detlef
I like a lot your keris (also sarong, rings, pendok and hilt). IMO the blade is OLD ....and singa too. Maybe gold work has been done in a second time

Hello Marco,

thank you! This is my assumption as well that the gold is renewed.

Regards,

Detlef

Gustav · 29th January 2011, 01:04 AM

To me the blade seems old, pamor looks like Madurese. Suspicious probably: the blade itself has 6 layers, singa 12 or more. Maybe (or surely) I am wrong. The layers seem to continue in the body of singa.

Actually we should expect a singa probably only on a special, high quality blade? Yet all seems possible in Madura.

Sajen · 29th January 2011, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

To me the blade seems old, pamor looks like Madurese. Suspicious probably: the blade itself has 6 layers, singa 12 or more. Maybe (or surely) I am wrong. The layers seem to continue in the body of singa.

Actually we should expect a singa probably only on a special, high quality blade? Yet all seems possible in Madura.

Thank you Gustav for comment. I think too that the blade is from Madura or East Java, it was purchased in Surabaya.

Here an old thread about a singa barong keris: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=singa+barong

Regards,

Detlef

Jean · 29th January 2011, 09:59 AM

IMHO the blade looks Madurese and old from the rough pamor style and carved details (greneng) especially but I have some doubts about the Singa Barong even if it looks original at first glance. Although it is difficult to give a definite opinion from the (good) pictures, there seems to be a lack of continuity of the pamor lines at the Singa head for instance, the pamor lines look denser in the Singa area than on the blade itself, and the colour looks slightly different. By the way can anybody show us another old Madurese blade with an original singa?
Best regards

Sajen · 29th January 2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

IMHO the blade looks Madurese and old from the rough pamor style and carved details (greneng) especially but I have some doubts about the Singa Barong even if it looks original at first glance. Although it is difficult to give a definite opinion from the (good) pictures, there seems to be a lack of continuity of the pamor lines at the Singa head for instance, the pamor lines look denser in the Singa area than on the blade itself, and the colour looks slightly different. By the way can anybody show us another old Madurese blade with an original singa?
Best regards

Hello Jean,

thank you for your comment. When you read the post #27 in the other thread from Alan G. Maisey you will see that he have said nearly the same. It is nearly impossible to give a 100% statement about my question. I have looked many times with a magnifer to this blade and I am still unsure but I don't have the knowledge like Alan. I will post later two other blades with a singa. By one I am sure that the singa is a later addition and this is good to seen, the other one is a recent blade (madurese), maybe this will be from some help.

Best regards,

Detlef

Gustav · 29th January 2011, 12:03 PM

Now I am almost sure the sogokan (and blumbangan) are cut later, together with singa: you see, the edges of sogokan are still pretty sharp. That's why the layers on the back of singa are continuing. Yet upper layers (which are not part of the blade thickness) are of other colour, as Jean mentioned.

Sajen · 29th January 2011, 12:53 PM

Here at first the pictures of the recent Madura blade with singa.

Sajen · 29th January 2011, 01:00 PM

And here the old blade with later added singa what is clearly to seen.

Sajen · 12th February 2011, 03:29 PM

Thank you for all comments!

It will be like Alan G. Maisey write in a other thread: "In this world, we mostly get what we pay for."

28th January 2011, 09:05 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Singa barong Hello members, this keris is already long in my possession. I have got it with this sheath which isn't apparently the original one but I changed the pendok blewah and handle inclusive selut and mendak to better ones because both have been simple. I like to read your estimation if the blade is old with the singa barong or if you think that the singa is a later addition or if you think that the complete blade is recent and artificially altered to look old since I am very unsure about this. I byself can't see any indication that the singa is a later addition. Every comment is very welcome, Detlef Attached Images

29th January 2011, 01:04 AM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,247	To me the blade seems old, pamor looks like Madurese. Suspicious probably: the blade itself has 6 layers, singa 12 or more. Maybe (or surely) I am wrong. The layers seem to continue in the body of singa. Actually we should expect a singa probably only on a special, high quality blade? Yet all seems possible in Madura. Last edited by Gustav; 29th January 2011 at 01:21 AM.

29th January 2011, 12:53 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Here at first the pictures of the recent Madura blade with singa. Attached Images

29th January 2011, 01:00 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	And here the old blade with later added singa what is clearly to seen. Attached Images

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28th January 2011, 09:49 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Hello Detlef I like a lot your keris (also sarong, rings, pendok and hilt). IMO the blade is OLD ....and singa too. Maybe gold work has been done in a second time

29th January 2011, 09:59 AM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	IMHO the blade looks Madurese and old from the rough pamor style and carved details (greneng) especially but I have some doubts about the Singa Barong even if it looks original at first glance. Although it is difficult to give a definite opinion from the (good) pictures, there seems to be a lack of continuity of the pamor lines at the Singa head for instance, the pamor lines look denser in the Singa area than on the blade itself, and the colour looks slightly different. By the way can anybody show us another old Madurese blade with an original singa? Best regards

29th January 2011, 12:03 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,247	Now I am almost sure the sogokan (and blumbangan) are cut later, together with singa: you see, the edges of sogokan are still pretty sharp. That's why the layers on the back of singa are continuing. Yet upper layers (which are not part of the blade thickness) are of other colour, as Jean mentioned.

12th February 2011, 03:29 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Thank you for all comments! It will be like Alan G. Maisey write in a other thread: "In this world, we mostly get what we pay for."