Arabian swords

[Michael Blalock]

The 1st photo below from a post entitled "Riyadh's old Bazaar" . The next photo was taken at the Military Museum of Yemen. The sword on the left has a matching hilt. They are an interesting mix of the Yemeni guard and the Omani Pommel.

[TVV]

I remember this hilt form from the Riyadh bazaar thread. It is most interesting to see another example in a museum. Thank you,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks very much Michael for sharing these!! It is really interesting to these these well known forms in stripped down status, and I am presuming these are the Hadhramauti style sabres/ sa'if that are typically embellished with embossed silver hilts and chains. At the top seems of course the kattara.
Curious on the piso podang in there, but likely collected in trade?

It would be fantastic to visit these shops! so Michael you have really kind of given me an often wished for peek into them!!!

Best regards,
Jim

[ariel]

I look at the pics of the old bazaar and ... have wet dreams.
How much do these swords go for?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello Im new to the Forum and first have to say how much I have enjoyed reading many of the detective stories over the last few months and what an excellent job the forum and its members have done.
Im based in Northern Oman and I have seen a few swords with hilts like that one in the museum case on the left of picture above. It looks like an extended and reworked form of old Omani Battle Sword Hilt.. I wonder if there is any history on that weapon and if it has been researched because it is so similar.

[A.alnakkas]

Salam ibrahim welcome to the forum. The 2nd sword in the 2nd picture (from right to left) is identical to one of my swords that i posted awhile ago.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Hello Im new to the Forum and first have to say how much I have enjoyed reading many of the detective stories over the last few months and what an excellent job the forum and its members have done.
Im based in Northern Oman and I have seen a few swords with hilts like that one in the museum case on the left of picture above. It looks like an extended and reworked form of old Omani Battle Sword Hilt.. I wonder if there is any history on that weapon and if it has been researched because it is so similar.

Welcome to the forum Ibrahiim !!!
Im really glad you have joined us, and agree, the detective work around here is fascinating and there is a tremendous core of knowledge in our membership. It really is a kind of historic weapons CSI

Naturally these swords have indeed been discussed many times through the years, and excellent observations on them and many Arabian swords are found in Robert Elgoods "Arms and Armour of Arabia".



All the best,
Jim

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Hello Im new to the Forum

IBRAHIM

à +

Dom

[Michael Blalock]

Welcome Ibrahim, These are fascinating swords to me, as is the whole tradition of straight swords with flexible blades in South Arabia. I have not been able to find any contact information at the museum in Yemen to ask about this sword. I've searched in English and Arabic.
I haven't had much luck contacting museums in Oman either. Perhaps you can help me on some questions, I have gotten very few hits in Arabic on what we call the Kattara, الكتارة in fact I have only seen one page in Arabic that uses this term. Is الكتارةthe name that Omani's use for these swords?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams everyone !
Ya the Omanis all use the term Kattarra for the long double edged flexible bladed weapon. I often see sword demonstration dances where the exponents do flying vertical takeoffs 3 feet in the air with buckler in one hand and sword ( the kattara ) in the other and showing off by throwing the sword in the air 10 feet and catching it accurately..Plus an incredible flexed wrist action which makes the blade buzz and hum!!
I argue that the buckler is vital to balance when fighting with this weapon as without it you wobble badly. Used properly the small shield can also easily whip the opponents sword out of his hand. The Bucklers name is "Terrs" in Oman, made of thick buffalo or rarely Rhino and commonly some sea creature which I think is whale hide.
On the subject of Museums in Oman I will get their details but I find the best info comes out of the Tariq Rajeb Museum in Kuwait. (Slightly Biased since they have one of my Omani Battle Swords given 15 Years ago !) and it is that weapon that really intrigues me ... and the link to the weapon in that museum case ?... The left hand one. Is it related to the Old Omani Battlesword? If I can post some photos I think you will see my point as the hilts are very similar..It may be just coincidence..but the Museum picture looks like an Omani hilt thats been stretched... very curious... I saw one in Muscat the other day and the vendor said it was from Saudia. The point is that little is known about the Omani Battle Sword (17th Century) except that research now points at a much earlier date... perhaps 10th Century... so its important if there is a link...( and actually its only the hilt Im concerned about just now as the blades are different ) The superb work by Elgood ... and another by Anthony North doesnt pick up on this ... I have attached pics of 2 of my Omani Battle Swords (Total Lenghth 30 inches).Please note that they are unrestored therefor lack the silver furniture leather handle wrist strap and scabbard which fell off probably 3 or 4 hundred years ago...!! I have read the detailed descriptions at Viking Swords on this weapon but I suspect there is a lot more to discover. Its a hacking sword with a broad wing shaped blade and a spiked hilt with turned down quillons but what sort of shield ?? and where exactly did it come from and who made it?...It could predate the long sword Kattarra by 600 years ...
On these Ive seen wootz blades and non wootz andengraved silver cartouch at the throat and sometimes a name on the Pommel in silver. Ive also seen the brass dot on some blades; 3 dots and a one dot. Please compare the hilt with the Saudi hilt in the museum picture ... ?

The Saudi sword I saw in Muscat had a fake running wolf stamp.
Just to confuse !! The Zubair Museum in Muscat has an Omani Battle Sword with a Running Wolf stamp too...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Salam ibrahim welcome to the forum. The 2nd sword in the 2nd picture (from right to left) is identical to one of my swords that i posted awhile ago.

Salaams, That looks like an Ethiopian blade with a yemeni Hilt .. Theres a lot of Hilts in Oman like that and they appear to suggest Falcon heads. I have two or three but on different blades; likely european imports (German) Heavy single edge with fullers . Useful on a ship... Dhow . The equivalent of a cutlass I suppose? I have a picture..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Welcome Ibrahim, These are fascinating swords to me, as is the whole tradition of straight swords with flexible blades in South Arabia. I have not been able to find any contact information at the museum in Yemen to ask about this sword. I've searched in English and Arabic.
I haven't had much luck contacting museums in Oman either. Perhaps you can help me on some questions, I have gotten very few hits in Arabic on what we call the Kattara, الكتارة in fact I have only seen one page in Arabic that uses this term. Is الكتارةthe name that Omani's use for these swords?

Kattara yes... I put too many R s in my last reply..

I am hugely interested in this weapon since no one seems to really know where it originates ... Im no exception despite owning 30 of them!! but I reckon they eveolved via Zanzibar after 1652 since that was when Oman seized that country so I imagine it came into Omani culture around about then. . via a broad cross section of swords Taureg, Mendingah, German,Sudani, Ethiopian and so on ... What puzzles me is if Im right what sword did it replace? The Omani short battle sword? or perhaps they had two swords both being used for a few hundred years by different little guard groups and outposts until the long sword generally took over... In fact there were several sword types including single edge both long and short..but Im generalising so as to focus on the short battle sword and the long Kattara ... It is fascinating because you then begin to think well what about the shields... ??? The Kattara is accompanied by the small Buckler(Terrs) but what did the short sword use?

[Michael Blalock]

On that note, here is the Guiness record highest sword throw 21.27 meters

http://www.guinessworldrecords.com/S...hrow/73875.htm

Here is a link to a photo of the swordsman and the Kattara

http://community.guinnessworldrecord...l?enlarge=true

[Steve]

Michael and Ibrahiim,
These photos and catalogue description ( which I finally retrieved from my i-phone) may be interesting to you. The sword is in the Wallace collection, London.
Steve

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Steve

Michael and Ibrahiim,
These photos and catalogue description ( which I finally retrieved from my i-phone) may be interesting to you. The sword is in the Wallace collection, London.
Steve

Salaams, Thankyou Steven that is a great lead and superb picture from the Wallace. I am particularly interested in that turned down cup and incorpoated quillons arrangement as it is like the so called Saudia variant contained in the thread and echoes the Omani short battle sword whos date is under the microscope because some would put it as 10th Century. It makes sense that there is a Persian involvement since that is where the short sword entered the ARABIAN PENINSULAR from. Probably from the Greek and Roman shortsword influence . I wonder what the original blade was like(The Wallace shows a 17thC German blade ~ possibly a running wolf stamp there?) Thank you for the input... The plot thickens.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

On that note, here is the Guiness record highest sword throw 21.27 meters

http://www.guinessworldrecords.com/S...hrow/73875.htm

Here is a link to a photo of the swordsman and the Kattara

http://community.guinnessworldrecord...l?enlarge=true

I tried throwing the Kattara .. Its easy ... the difficult bit is catching it and as they tend to be quite sharp.... vital to take it by the hilt . I believe this was a martial exercise and use the fact to argue against the suggestion of wrist strap through the pommel hole... The fact is I cant find that thread... but I will... and further I also found out that old Kattara dont have pommel holes.. This leads me to think that the new bladesmiths thought it should have a hole in it. So it has.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Steve

Michael and Ibrahiim,
These photos and catalogue description ( which I finally retrieved from my i-phone) may be interesting to you. The sword is in the Wallace collection, London.
Steve

Such a good picture I didnt fully hoist in the writing under... Yes I see it has the running wolf blade mark. Thanks Steve On the subject of pommel hole on the Omani Kattara; no one has yet come up with any proof(I must have asked 20 people by now) but I can confirm that the pommel tang and blade all start life together so the idea of tightening the pommel with some sort of tool although it makes sense doesnt hold as its all one piece. Swords appear to be made with a hole in the pommel because thats what swords were made with before..therefor it is immortalised !!! The question is still unanswered.

[A.alnakkas]

posted by mistake >.<

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

The 1st photo below from a post entitled "Riyadh's old Bazaar" . The next photo was taken at the Military Museum of Yemen. The sword on the left has a matching hilt. They are an interesting mix of the Yemeni guard and the Omani Pommel.

Salaams,

Salaams Michael and an important note for Forum, May I also add this letter to the TVV thread on the same subject?

Reference Motivate Publishing. The Craft Herritage of Oman. By Neil Richardson and Marcia Dorr in two volumes.

This was such a great thread as it is very relevant to the Omani Kattara history which continues to unfold. In fact on your thread here... I have said that the straight weapon was called Kattara whilst the curved is called a Sayf. This is true and untrue to the extent that ;

1. Regionally there appears to be some flexible name useage/mixup.
2. People I ask just guess and say the first thing in their heads!
3. People don't know.

So I return to your original thread here to give warning notice that we may have got it all the wrong way round.

The straight is a Sayf and the curved is a Kattara.

My reference is The Great Herritage of Oman by Richardson and Dorr, page 230. and page 455. I can seriously reccommend this book as the Omani artefact book .. The best I have seen... It even has reference pictures from My Fathers old store! I am embarrased somewhat by the fact that for decades I have been wrongly naming and referring to the swords when in fact they are the other way around....!!!

I started asking people a few months ago which was which and to my horror I realised no one had any proof and most were as usual guessing. Omani people call all swords Sayf or Saif or Kattara depending on which way the wind is blowing !! and come to think of it ... it makes little or no difference to them anyway. Trying to research under that arrangement drives me crazy !!

Forum please note! Straight Omani Swords are called Sayf and curved are Kattara. ~ I am very embarrassed and for the rest of the week I shall be wearing a set of donkeys ears !!

A curved kattara in the Bait al Zubair collection looks to be 18/19thC and attributed possibly to German origin. (page 455 same ref.) I believe you may have a sword similar in hilt to the wired up item.( page 454 of same ref.) The book also illustrates other curved kattara from Persia but used in Oman.

So the straight weapon is a Saif, The curved is a Kattara (or Kittara). There is another with a flambouyant wavy edge and a single fuller called Saif abu Falq. The blades with 3 fullers are termed abu thalath musayil. I heard the term for the first time today to describe the old Omani sword (turned down quillons ) as Yemeni Sayf !! though I proceed with great care along that road.

Some mystique continues to surround all things Omani and questions still arise in all sectors on origins particularly the so called European trade blades? I see a new derivative on the Old Omani Sword with a Royal Sa- idiyyah hilt. Regarding Ters Shields it is rumoured they came from Zanzibar and are of some amphibious animal hide that could be either/or Whale, Hippo, Rhino or Waterbuffalo.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, sorry wrong thread.. moved ...Ibrahiim