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#31 |
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My personal own observation based on availability of old antique Moro krises for sale or on auction, is that Maranao is the most common, followed by Maguidanao and then Sulu. Do you guys have similar observations?
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#32 | |
Keris forum moderator
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#33 |
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I agree with David. In fact, there are many other examples in people's collections that are not even seen or accounted for. So no one knows for sure.
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#34 | |
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The kris from the Sulu Archipelago are likely to be under represented because of a relative lack of contact and trade between U.S. and other Western groups with the Sulu Moros compared with the Moro groups based on Mindanao. In particular, US servicemen and others were interacting with relatively friendly Moro groups on Mindanao (notably those Maguindanao controlled by Datu Piang around Reina Regente) in the early 1900s, and Col. Pershing established reasonable relations with Maranao groups of the Lake Lanao region following some punitive expeditions in the early 1900s. The Moro groups of the smaller Sulu Archipelago islands were more troublesome and led to several major armed conflicts, with many ongoing skirmishes. While some weapons were confiscated in these conflicts, the opportunity to obtain Sulu kris via trade or barter was less than among the Mindanao groups. What we do see online are more barung than kris coming from the Sulu areas, and this may have reflected a preference by the Sulu groups for the barung, but, again, such observations need to be interpreted cautiously. It's an interesting question you raise but one that cannot be answered with any confidence based on the relative numbers of weapons showing up online. Ian. |
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#35 | |
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Thank you for the acknowledgement. I also respect your point of view. I've been around shops in Metro Manila and Davao where I've seen some newly made Mindanao krises with new stylistic elements, but which also conform to traditional standards. Recently, I held a brand new kris with a separate gangya (not just a line) which indicated to me that manufacturers are now aware of some "signs" collectors are looking for. While the seasoned collector would be able to tell they are merely aged to look antique (and a few other things), these swords are nonetheless really beautiful and would appeal to a niche market. In terms of function, they are equally lethal and may even better many of the antique krises I have personally handled. As display items, these new swords look nicer. In many ways, the modern products are superior to the antiques. However, as a weapon, the kris has become obsolete. I therefore see the production of krises these days as akin to manufacturing sophisticated typewriters in the age of laptops and personal computers. It has its niche market but has become mainly, a novelty item. I think this is the reason why manufacturers have to resort to "creative" efforts to sell their products but it is something they have to do to keep their livelihood and traditions going. I'm not sure if I made sense. ![]() ![]() Kind regards, Fernando |
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#36 |
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Hi Alexish,
I also agree with David, Battara and Ian. Best, Fernando Last edited by F. de Luzon; 12th June 2017 at 10:22 AM. |
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#37 |
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Dear Fernando,
Can you share with us some photos of good newly-made krisses and their sheaths? Maybe you can start a newly thread on this subject. |
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#38 |
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For comparison, I also enclose pictures of a new kris sheath that I comissioned in Malaysia about 10 years ago.
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#39 |
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Alexish:
These pics are too small to make out any of the details. Can you post them again in larger format. Perhaps a new thread might be appropriate for that discussion. Ian. |
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#40 |
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I hereby enclose bigger images of the kris sheath.
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#41 |
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To me the blade looks older (late 19th - early 20th century?) than everything else.
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#42 |
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Agree with Jose, old/antique blade with recent fittings.
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#43 | |
Keris forum moderator
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#44 | |
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yes, you are correct! Look like Adnis pictures! ![]() ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#45 |
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I agree with Detlef.
These interpretations of Moro work shown by alexish are not typical of recent Moro items coming from Mindanao, and are clearly distinct from more traditional Moro styles. |
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#46 | |
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In response to your questions, I think we can say: NO--this does not look like authentic Moro work, andMy main concerns are that these pieces tend to be overly embellished and the proportions of various features are different, thereby losing touch with much of the form and simplicity of the original designs and missing the mark. These interpretations are obviously based on the originals that alexish has shown, but they are artists' interpretations from outside the culture and suffer accordingly. Again, these are well carved and one can admire the skill in their crafting. Ian. Ian |
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#47 | |
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#48 |
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Detlef has identified the facilitator - it certainly doesn't look like it ever was supposed to represent Moro style. However, it's also not a Malay style (nor motifs) that I recognize. Not knowing who was the actual artisan doing these fittings, I'd guess that this is more of a modern art approach.
While I do love the Sulu scabbard type with flared tip, this example's tip leaves something to be desired IMHO... Regards, Kai |
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#49 |
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Here is a link to what I think is a good modern Moro restoration;
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11599 And there was discussion on what should have been, but IMHO it's good. |
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