The one that got away...

[M ELEY]

I'm so depressed... I watched this one up until the end, but didn't have the $$$ to bid

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-FIRE-FIGHTER...item35a63d9304

Although later British fire axes closely resemble their earlier boarding axe cousins, I am convinced that this one was the real McCoy. A boarding axe, that is, mid-19th c., undoubtedly private purchase. Note the rounded cap that resembles the govt naval issue boarding pieces. The later fire axes had more subtle heads that didn't look like this. Also, note the wicked down-curved spike and extended haft. Not tremendously different than the Brit fire axe, but enough to make it stand out. Finally, I believe the "twine" around the haft acting as grip to be typical sailor marline knotwork. Now, if you will excure me, I'm going off into a corner to cry...

Unless someone doesn't agree (believe me, I'd be happy to be wrong)

[Gavin Nugent]

Geez mate, you should have let me know, being in my neck of the woods, I could have carried that for you until you were ready.

I look forward to seeing how the discussion transpires.

Gav

[M ELEY]

Thanks, Gavin. I should have thought of that-

[Dmitry]

No need to lament just yet. This is not a boarding axe. The blade and the pick are paper-thin. There is no taper at all.

The one that should be lamented is this -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I bought it.

[M ELEY]

Now that WAS a steal, Dmitry!
Congrats on that one. As a person of limited income for collecting, I can appreciate a bargain and every once in a blue moon, one comes around.

Actually, now that you point it out, the blade on the axe does look a little on the thin side. Still, an old piece. There is such a fine line when it comes to these, as ship-board fire axes literally evolved from their fighting predecessors. I feel better now. Again, good job on landing that beautiful sword! Now, I can lament not seeing your sword auction-

[Dmitry]

Let's save these photos for posterity.
Look at the pick end again, and imagine if you'd drove it into, say, an oak door. Do you think a flat-planed blade would be easy to pull out, provided it didn't break upon impact?
Paraphrasing the great Levine - "Read the axe, not the story". In this case the seller was right - it is a fire axe, [probably used to hang on a wall of a janitor's closet].

[M ELEY]

Again, I now see your point and agree fire axe, but wouldn't a fire axe be made to chop down doors as well? You mention a "flat-planed" blade. Are you referring to the fact that the blade isn't tapered or bearded? Again, early Brit boarding axes had blades with this shape to them, straight-bladed almost wedge shape-

[Dmitry]

Look at the blade from the top down, it's almost paper thin; then compare it with the axes in Gilkerson. The pick has to be wedge-shaped on all angles to avoid getting it stuck.
Why it's a fire axe, and it's so thinly-sliced; perhaps because it's a modern implement that only exists for the sake of the fire inspector..
Fire Extinguisher - check
Bucket with sand - check
Fire Axe - check
etc.
Perhaps it's old movie prop..

Compare this beefy axe to the ebay one.

[Hotspur]

I bought it.

You scoundrel What a strange season continues. WIth this Discussion goes a Meaningful Auction Not to be missed. An odd one you may have spotted already Dmitry, a Philadelphia special. That one I wish I could.

There was once a really nice axe site and iirc archive.org might bring it back up for reading. There was an entire page of boarding vs ice vs fire axes.
http://members.tripod.com/tomahawks-r-tatca/id19.htm

A leftover (maybe defunct now) forum attached to that information
http://www.network54.com/Forum/147444/

Cheers

GC

[M ELEY]

Thanks, Hotspur. If I read your message right, you lost out on Dmitry's sword. Bummer...

I used to frequent that site and know the gent who ran it. It is archived and I'll try to find that link again (I copied it out on paper).

But, here's the thing... I agree that this axe in retrospect is too thin in the blade, but with one posted by Dmitry with the beefy blade is also NOT a boarding axe. The site you mentioned shows that it was a service axe distributed to both wilderness survival and to some soldiers in the trenches of WWI. Note how short the lagets are compared to some other boarding axes. Again, now you see why I've posted this thread and others in the past. For those who collect naval/nautical implements, there are the ones used by the govt navy and those many many others used for private purchase. These are the elusive pieces that are mimiced by British fire axes, camp axes, tomahawks, trade axes, trench axes, ice cutting axes, and even European boy-scout type camp axes. It becomes both confusing and frustrating to try and distinguish between the two-

I currently have an axe in my collection that I've never posted that I believe to be the real deal, but with such broad questions still remaining as to what constitutes a boarding axe, I think there will always be gray areas of doubt. For instance, not all boarding axes had wedged spikes. Yes, these did help sailors wrench hotshot impaled in the deck free, but the boarding axe was a direct development of the trade tomahawks that came before them. Early boarding axes had spiked tips that would leave a wicked hole in an enemies skull. The Dutch entrebil axe likewise had a wicked spike, as did the French patterns. In any case, when i have time, I'll try and post a pick of my axe, with the risk of dodging cannon-fire-

[Hotspur]

Thanks, Hotspur. If I read your message right, you lost out on Dmitry's sword. Bummer...

Nope, I watched that one go by and am glad it went to the extended family (as it were). There is a particular wired Philly that might interest him as well and may well get adopted for a paltry amount.

The old tatca page was/is a good browse (in its own day). yes please, axe pictures when available. They are an item I watch from time to time but my real interests are longer blades.

Cheers

GC

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Nope, I watched that one go by and am glad it went to the extended family (as it were).

Yes, I am rapidly becoming that weird uncle no-one ever talks about.

I don't know what Philly you're talking about, Glen, but there is a Ketland eagle with a certain foul naval symbol that smells funny. Seller says it fell off a moving truck... Inmates are not allowed to discuss the ongoing auctions, so I'll stop there.

I am very happy to have bought this 1805 lieutenant's sword.
Several years back I missed a very nice one that was on the auction block here in Rhody. It was in a better shape than this one, but I was young and innocent. I might still have the photos of it somewhere. Now that i bought this one, I feel somewhat vindicated.
These swords are very seldom seen on this side of the Atlantic. Usually, only one or two appear on eBay a year, if that. Higher ranks models are more prolific, which is a little odd. Perhaps the mortality rate among the lieutenants was high, perhaps some were promoted to captaincy and discarded their old swords.


Mark, the photo of an axe that I posted for you shows the shape of a spike from an angle not often seen in books. This is the shape that I called a "wedge".

[Hotspur]

Dmitry,

A pm headed to your inbox on the Philly.

[M ELEY]

Ahhh, now I get it. It was the shape of the spike you were referring to. Well, that's good news for me, as the piece I am referring to does indeed have a four sided spike. Likewise, in profile, it is wedge-shaped. The only thing is mine comes to a wicked spike that would penetrate sheet metal if swung. Time to get my teen daughter (the one more experienced than I with the modern gizmos ) to help me post pics...

Again, congrats on that rare sword, Dmitry, and especially for that price!

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Again, congrats on that rare sword, Dmitry, and especially for that price!

And congrats to you for holding onto the $150 you would've spent on that axe!

[M ELEY]

Yes, indeed!

[M ELEY]

Pics of my axe up under a new thread...