two Dutch medieval daggers

cornelistromp · 13th November 2009, 10:54 AM

Hello Jim Hello Michael,

thank you for the kind comments , the great knowledge of arms and armour of you two, always gives me a positive drive

but be careful the more you learn and know the more you get isolated.

I would like to point out an aspect of the weapon forum!
I don't think that a forum is a place to judge or condemn a weapon! for the simple reason that there always will be a lack in information. Without
scientific tests doubters will continue to doubt as we all have seen in the case of the sword of Edward III .

In general my point is:
there is not enough information in any forum to make a definate conclusion on a weapon's provenance by pictures alone.To do so will in any way cause damage or influence further study.

Ewart Oakeshott in records of the medieval sword;
The student of arms should never be put off on the grounds that a sword appears to be "too good to be true " . This is a trap
into which the compimlers of sales catalogs have resoundingly fallen in the past . Any object of antiquity has to be assessed on its own merits if it has no well-authenticated provenance . If you meet a fine , beautifully preserved medieval sword in the sale room , or offered by a dealer , don't jib at it if it looks smooth and black without rust pits-or even if it has been cleaned and the and the patina of ferrite or goethite cleaned off. Because it is smart and in good condition doesn't mean that it is a modern fake . On the other hand , there are superb modern fakes ... One has to use ones'nose' and ones common -sense. But to reject a sword as a dud either because it looks too good , or because somebody tell you he/she has "never seen one like it " is absurd . If one considers the hundreds of thousands of swords which must have been made between c.400BC and AD1525-probably millions- unless one can honestly say one has seen all of them , it is not honest to damn something because "I have never seen one like this ". There were infinite variations of detail in the style of pommels,crosses , blades and inscriptions, most of them according to some medieval person's own particular fancy . One has to remember what a tiny percentage of these thousands of swords are available for study now , The number grows all the time, but it is still an incredibly small percentage .

kind regards from Holland

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13th November 2009, 10:54 AM	#10
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hello Jim Hello Michael, thank you for the kind comments , the great knowledge of arms and armour of you two, always gives me a positive drive but be careful the more you learn and know the more you get isolated. I would like to point out an aspect of the weapon forum! I don't think that a forum is a place to judge or condemn a weapon! for the simple reason that there always will be a lack in information. Without scientific tests doubters will continue to doubt as we all have seen in the case of the sword of Edward III . In general my point is: there is not enough information in any forum to make a definate conclusion on a weapon's provenance by pictures alone.To do so will in any way cause damage or influence further study. Ewart Oakeshott in records of the medieval sword; The student of arms should never be put off on the grounds that a sword appears to be "too good to be true " . This is a trap into which the compimlers of sales catalogs have resoundingly fallen in the past . Any object of antiquity has to be assessed on its own merits if it has no well-authenticated provenance . If you meet a fine , beautifully preserved medieval sword in the sale room , or offered by a dealer , don't jib at it if it looks smooth and black without rust pits-or even if it has been cleaned and the and the patina of ferrite or goethite cleaned off. Because it is smart and in good condition doesn't mean that it is a modern fake . On the other hand , there are superb modern fakes ... One has to use ones'nose' and ones common -sense. But to reject a sword as a dud either because it looks too good , or because somebody tell you he/she has "never seen one like it " is absurd . If one considers the hundreds of thousands of swords which must have been made between c.400BC and AD1525-probably millions- unless one can honestly say one has seen all of them , it is not honest to damn something because "I have never seen one like this ". There were infinite variations of detail in the style of pommels,crosses , blades and inscriptions, most of them according to some medieval person's own particular fancy . One has to remember what a tiny percentage of these thousands of swords are available for study now , The number grows all the time, but it is still an incredibly small percentage . kind regards from Holland