Sumatran / Bugis ID

Sajen · 30th October 2009, 05:38 PM

I still vote for Bugis Riau, the keris have Bugis and Sumatra influence. Warangka and pendokok looks Bugis and pendok looks sumatran while the hilt have influence from both and the blade seems to be sumatran. I think that it is a very nice old keris, so far you can see it by pictures.

Detlef

Moshah · 30th October 2009, 06:00 PM

I believe it is a good keris too, detlef. (or should i called u sajen?)

If I was not mistaken, I can see that the blade has been warang / etched / stained. If it was a bugis-riau keris, do it still need the warangan? Didn't by undid the warangan, the pamor can't be seen clearly like this?

What pattern of pamor is that? I think I've seen such pamor in some sumatran kerises, but I dunno what name it goes...

If it was an old keris, it was so lucky to be in right hands, since very little trace of damages can be found there...

Sajen · 30th October 2009, 08:51 PM

Moshah,

Detlef is fine, sajen is my user name.

I don't know if you have seen this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8761

Ok, it's a Sumatra keris (like I believe that's your's blade also) and I think that your blade have a very nice pamor and it don't will look nice like this without warangan. I don't know if Bugis blades have had originally a warangan but BluErf for example have a great knowledge about this and will be able to answer this question. I personally like it by keris from all region when they etched. Like you see in the link above the pamor is better visible.

The pamor on your keris seems to be some sort of Wengkon Untu Walang, but I am not very sure and I am not an expert.

Like I write before, it's a very nice keris in a good state and I would be happy when it belongs to my collection!

Regards,

Detlef

Moshah · 30th October 2009, 09:20 PM

I think you got a point there, Detlef.

Because of the norm, I've seen most bugis keris without its etching and on certain point, it is nice to see it like that.

But if the pamor is traceable and outstanding, etching seems to be just fine, as in case of your palembang gonjo iras blade...

Meanwhile in this case, perhaps do nothing is best

It is a keris in a good state, but do it really have some ages? It doesn't look new, nor did it looks too old as well...

Sajen · 30th October 2009, 09:49 PM

I think that it's an old one, but very difficult to say only by pictures.

BTW, which material is the pendok?

Moshah · 31st October 2009, 02:22 AM

I think it is silver, since there are blacky patch all over it. I could be mamas as well, but I have very limited knowledge on identifying one.

I must have some age, but detlef how could you ID that?

Moshah · 31st October 2009, 05:32 AM

I just got some opinion regarding of this keris:

The hilt and wronko is Bugis. Sheath is Sumatran.

Blade is Javanese, of dhapur Menderang, pamor Unthu Walang.

Somebody of extensive knowledge of Javanese keris might can approve this theory or not.

As my knowledge are limited, I wouldn't say it's a Javanese blade because it doesn't look like one.

I might be extremely wrong, however....

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30th October 2009, 05:38 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,193	I still vote for Bugis Riau, the keris have Bugis and Sumatra influence. Warangka and pendokok looks Bugis and pendok looks sumatran while the hilt have influence from both and the blade seems to be sumatran. I think that it is a very nice old keris, so far you can see it by pictures. Detlef

30th October 2009, 06:00 PM	#2
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	I believe it is a good keris too, detlef. (or should i called u sajen?) If I was not mistaken, I can see that the blade has been warang / etched / stained. If it was a bugis-riau keris, do it still need the warangan? Didn't by undid the warangan, the pamor can't be seen clearly like this? What pattern of pamor is that? I think I've seen such pamor in some sumatran kerises, but I dunno what name it goes... If it was an old keris, it was so lucky to be in right hands, since very little trace of damages can be found there...

30th October 2009, 08:51 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,193	Moshah, Detlef is fine, sajen is my user name. I don't know if you have seen this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8761 Ok, it's a Sumatra keris (like I believe that's your's blade also) and I think that your blade have a very nice pamor and it don't will look nice like this without warangan. I don't know if Bugis blades have had originally a warangan but BluErf for example have a great knowledge about this and will be able to answer this question. I personally like it by keris from all region when they etched. Like you see in the link above the pamor is better visible. The pamor on your keris seems to be some sort of Wengkon Untu Walang, but I am not very sure and I am not an expert. Like I write before, it's a very nice keris in a good state and I would be happy when it belongs to my collection! Regards, Detlef

30th October 2009, 09:20 PM	#4
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	I think you got a point there, Detlef. Because of the norm, I've seen most bugis keris without its etching and on certain point, it is nice to see it like that. But if the pamor is traceable and outstanding, etching seems to be just fine, as in case of your palembang gonjo iras blade... Meanwhile in this case, perhaps do nothing is best It is a keris in a good state, but do it really have some ages? It doesn't look new, nor did it looks too old as well...

30th October 2009, 09:49 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,193	I think that it's an old one, but very difficult to say only by pictures. BTW, which material is the pendok?

31st October 2009, 02:22 AM	#6
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	I think it is silver, since there are blacky patch all over it. I could be mamas as well, but I have very limited knowledge on identifying one. I must have some age, but detlef how could you ID that?

31st October 2009, 05:32 AM	#7
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	I just got some opinion regarding of this keris: The hilt and wronko is Bugis. Sheath is Sumatran. Blade is Javanese, of dhapur Menderang, pamor Unthu Walang. Somebody of extensive knowledge of Javanese keris might can approve this theory or not. As my knowledge are limited, I wouldn't say it's a Javanese blade because it doesn't look like one. I might be extremely wrong, however....