kaskara for komment...and translation

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Dom.
I was aware that the crescent symbolism long predated Islam, and that the use of symbols and images varys within the various sects and followings of the Faith.

It seems that the folk religions of certain regions, in this case the Sudan, follow Islam in varying application accordingly and sometimes nominally, and that celestial symbolism has some specific importance there. It seems the crescent had some such symbolism in ancient Egyptian pantheons.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It seems that the folk religions of certain regions, in this case the Sudan, follow Islam in varying application accordingly and sometimes nominally, and that celestial symbolism has some specific importance there. It seems the crescent had some such symbolism in ancient Egyptian pantheons.

Hi Jim
That is not taking enough in consideration that Islam came to these regions after Christianity, which had already and severely erase the ancient beliefs.
The Egyptian pharaoh beliefs was completely vanish from the spirit when Muslims over load the Sudan, more than 1000 years later

From the third century to the sixth century the whole of Sudan was Christian, and was even the official religion. Then the seventh century to the fifteenth century the two religions live in coexistence almost peaceful.

I am skeptical about some reminicent of a religion for over 1000 years,
especially when you know the damage that Christians have inflicted on the Pharaonic monuments
later Muslims continued destruction of the work already undertaken

might be possible (under reserve) to find some signs of "Kaballah" mix-up with some other Islamic objects for magical practices, but never saw or noticed pharaonic marks or signs

but ... I never forget my favorite thought;
in those countries, every thing is possible, and more specially the impossible
it's land of wonders, or it's not ??

à +

Dom

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent synopsis of the religious history of Sudanic regions Dom! Thank you for explaining it so well. It still leaves me curious about what this crescentic motif might signify, or do you suppose it might just be stylized use of the familiar dual crescents seen on blades of takoubas and trade blades used on kaskaras?



All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

As noted, Dom always is extremely helpful with these inscriptions, and in my curiosity about these celestial symbolisms and motif, what I have found seems to agree with his point about them being perceived as perhaps talismanic as seen by natives on European blades. These trade blades were typically regarded as powerful and in native perception perhaps these symbols, often derived from Kabbalistic examples, were seen as imbuing that power.

As Stephen has noted in his original post, there are other examples of this type motif seen in kaskara blades, one belonging to Charles S. and the other from Oriental Arms, both with groupings of what appear to be crescents in similar arrangements to this example. Apparantly these seem to be used in conjunction with or in similar arrangement to representations of the 'Lohr', a panel of wood with religious inscriptions and invocations, on these blades.
It seems in some cases, astronomical events such as the old moon in the new moon are represented.

In "European Blades in Tuareg Swords and Daggers" (Dr. L.Cabot Briggs, JAAS, Vol. V, #2, 1965) the blades describes are also certain kaskara blades.In Plate XV (p.56) there is a blade which has extant European decorative designs, and at the forte, there are linear half circles on opposing sides of the blade face, with a circle between, reminiscent of these patterns with more fully inscribed images.
The author notes this motif of semi circles and circles appear to be Sudanese work and probably applied after the blade arrived in Africa.

On the blade seen in the Oriental Arms example shown (linked by Stephen in orig post) at the base of the motif, which seems almost floral rather than crescents, one can see the familiar opposed man in the moon faces typically seen on takouba blades.

Dr. Briggs (op.cit.p.89) notes "...the occurrence on some swords of the 'Hausa' type of half moon marks stamped over elaborate Arabic inscriptions inlaid in silver suggests also that such marks may have been applied sometimes in the Sudan to imported blades".

It would seem that the Sudanese, and perhaps the Taureg, in thier use of crescents or man in the moon stamps, often in opposed arrangement in motif, must have perceived some talismanic property to them as mentioned here.

It would seem that in most cases, these geometrically stylized images would have been within the perameters of acceptibility in most cases as decorative motif along with religious invocations such as the representations of the Lohr.
Admittedly speculation on my part, and of course looking forward to other views.

In many parts of the Sahara, particularly Tunisia, symbols such as the fish, crescent, star and birds are good luck symbols and often are used in material culture such as textiles etc.

Best regards,
Jim