Five Ball Hilt spadroons

Jim McDougall · 12th July 2009, 05:12 AM

Hi Glen,
Im really glad you started the other thread on fraternal swords and the military, and we've got great discussion now on both fronts. Thank you.

I would really like to know of earlier use of the numeric ball motif on another type of hilt in earlier times and where. I really cant think of anything offhand, and the first example of the five ball has always been to me the British five ball.
W.E. May ("The Five Ball Type of Sword Hilt", Journal of the Arms and Armour Society, Vol. IV, #9,1963, pp.153-56) notes, "...as far as I have been able to ascertain, swords with the five ball type of hilt came into use in the Royal Navy shortly before the year 1790, as an alternative to two or three other types".
He notes further that the Army also had this type hilt, but he was unclear on whose came first.
It should be noted that Robson's "Swords of the British Army" describing the M1786 Infantry officers spadroon with five ball hilt, did not come out until 1975.

In " Naval Swords" by P.G.W. Annis ( May's co-author in the comprehensive 2 volume "Swords for Sea Service", 1970) also published in 1970, Annis states;
"...the combination of a beaded guard with a grip shaped to the hand may be considered a relatively late feature", as he is describing naval swords at the end of the 18th century.

Mark Cloke is a great researcher who goes into fantastic detail in his studies on weapons, particularly regulation patterns and his work I consider a valuable resource, and I would very much like to know if he has more detail on this topic.

I regret the loss of your brother, who must have been a wonderfully inquisitive and fascinating fellow, and you both must have had great conversations with the knowledge and interest you have in history.

As always, terrific illustrations you post!! and what a great Federal gorget!

All the best,
Jim

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12th July 2009, 05:12 AM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Glen, Im really glad you started the other thread on fraternal swords and the military, and we've got great discussion now on both fronts. Thank you. I would really like to know of earlier use of the numeric ball motif on another type of hilt in earlier times and where. I really cant think of anything offhand, and the first example of the five ball has always been to me the British five ball. W.E. May ("The Five Ball Type of Sword Hilt", Journal of the Arms and Armour Society, Vol. IV, #9,1963, pp.153-56) notes, "...as far as I have been able to ascertain, swords with the five ball type of hilt came into use in the Royal Navy shortly before the year 1790, as an alternative to two or three other types". He notes further that the Army also had this type hilt, but he was unclear on whose came first. It should be noted that Robson's "Swords of the British Army" describing the M1786 Infantry officers spadroon with five ball hilt, did not come out until 1975. In " Naval Swords" by P.G.W. Annis ( May's co-author in the comprehensive 2 volume "Swords for Sea Service", 1970) also published in 1970, Annis states; "...the combination of a beaded guard with a grip shaped to the hand may be considered a relatively late feature", as he is describing naval swords at the end of the 18th century. Mark Cloke is a great researcher who goes into fantastic detail in his studies on weapons, particularly regulation patterns and his work I consider a valuable resource, and I would very much like to know if he has more detail on this topic. I regret the loss of your brother, who must have been a wonderfully inquisitive and fascinating fellow, and you both must have had great conversations with the knowledge and interest you have in history. As always, terrific illustrations you post!! and what a great Federal gorget! All the best, Jim