Indian bayonet for coments

fernando · 2nd July 2009, 08:13 PM

I believe these are called 'sangin' ... subject to correction.
Any ideas where this style comes from in India?
The age ... could it be 19th century?
Gentlemen, your coments will be so much welcome.
Fernando

.

ward · 2nd July 2009, 09:18 PM

You scored on that one. These are pretty hard to find. I believe you are maybe looking at a earlier piece 18th- early 19th century. I would look toward southern India. What are the dimensions of the piece. Also could you give a closeup of the animal figure. I see the ears but can not figure out what animal it is representing

fernando · 3rd July 2009, 01:02 AM

Thank you for your input, Ward.
I don't think there is an animal

.
You mean the area in these close ups?
It is only steel efects ... isn't it?
The whole blade length is 22,5 cms ( 9"). Total bayonet length is 33,5 cms. (13").
Fernando

.

ward · 3rd July 2009, 02:28 AM

your right not a animal still nice piece

Jim McDougall · 3rd July 2009, 03:46 AM

Hi Fernando,
These seem to be reasonably rare, and the term 'sangin' seems correct from the sources I can find. These were used apparantly on matchlocks, I believe the toradar. The references I have found all suggest 18th century, and the form generally corresponds to yours with the double extensions, which are lashed to the barrel of the gun.
The type was known in Mysore with Tipu Sultans guards (Elgood, p.165) but the style is more elaborate, and indeed with 'animal imaging' present, as was often the case with his forces' weapons and uniforms.
Egerton lists a 'sangin' from Nepal (#353), and Wallis & Wallis sold one in 2003 which apparantly had a red & white horsehair plume attached. It would be interesting to discover what pageantry or ceremonial significance this had.

Incredibly nice piece Fernando, and thank you for always sharing these 'conquests'

here!!!

All the best,
Jim

katana · 4th July 2009, 07:43 PM

Hi Fernando,
a nice interesting piece

. Its noteworthy that the blade is used on the 'horizontal plane' .....perhaps this aids penetration through the rib cage

What was used to bind the bayonet to the musket ??

Regards David

fernando · 7th July 2009, 12:15 AM

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your precious input

.
... and for your (usually much too) generous apreciation of my humble conquest(s)

.

Hi David,
I am glad you find it interesting

. Horizontal plane, rib penetrator, he he

I beleive these were binded with either rawhide or rattan; same as used to fix the barrels, when not brass or iron binded (picture C).
There are members who are experts in this area, like Ward, but it appears that there are at least three types of bayonets; apart from this one with binding langets, others have a sort of springed grip, that is coupled into quadrangular rings; these rings may be either welded to the barrel, or welded to plates which are binded to the barrel with the mentioned materials (picture A). One of my (only two) muskets is the version with fixed rings (picture B); unfortunately i have never been lucky to find a bayonet to fit in it, which i would adore.
Fernando

.

ward · 7th July 2009, 12:27 AM

I appreciate the compliment. I will try to look thru my collection and see if I have one that would fit your bayonet. should give you a idea what to look for in a indian rifle to match the piece

2nd July 2009, 08:13 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Indian bayonet for coments I believe these are called 'sangin' ... subject to correction. Any ideas where this style comes from in India? The age ... could it be 19th century? Gentlemen, your coments will be so much welcome. Fernando . Attached Images

7th July 2009, 12:15 AM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jim, Thank you so much for your precious input . ... and for your (usually much too) generous apreciation of my humble conquest(s) . Hi David, I am glad you find it interesting . Horizontal plane, rib penetrator, he he I beleive these were binded with either rawhide or rattan; same as used to fix the barrels, when not brass or iron binded (picture C). There are members who are experts in this area, like Ward, but it appears that there are at least three types of bayonets; apart from this one with binding langets, others have a sort of springed grip, that is coupled into quadrangular rings; these rings may be either welded to the barrel, or welded to plates which are binded to the barrel with the mentioned materials (picture A). One of my (only two) muskets is the version with fixed rings (picture B); unfortunately i have never been lucky to find a bayonet to fit in it, which i would adore. Fernando . Attached Images

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2nd July 2009, 09:18 PM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	You scored on that one. These are pretty hard to find. I believe you are maybe looking at a earlier piece 18th- early 19th century. I would look toward southern India. What are the dimensions of the piece. Also could you give a closeup of the animal figure. I see the ears but can not figure out what animal it is representing

3rd July 2009, 01:02 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for your input, Ward. I don't think there is an animal . You mean the area in these close ups? It is only steel efects ... isn't it? The whole blade length is 22,5 cms ( 9"). Total bayonet length is 33,5 cms. (13"). Fernando . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 3rd July 2009 at 01:21 AM. Reason: addition

3rd July 2009, 02:28 AM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	your right not a animal still nice piece

3rd July 2009, 03:46 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Fernando, These seem to be reasonably rare, and the term 'sangin' seems correct from the sources I can find. These were used apparantly on matchlocks, I believe the toradar. The references I have found all suggest 18th century, and the form generally corresponds to yours with the double extensions, which are lashed to the barrel of the gun. The type was known in Mysore with Tipu Sultans guards (Elgood, p.165) but the style is more elaborate, and indeed with 'animal imaging' present, as was often the case with his forces' weapons and uniforms. Egerton lists a 'sangin' from Nepal (#353), and Wallis & Wallis sold one in 2003 which apparantly had a red & white horsehair plume attached. It would be interesting to discover what pageantry or ceremonial significance this had. Incredibly nice piece Fernando, and thank you for always sharing these 'conquests' here!!! All the best, Jim

4th July 2009, 07:43 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Fernando, a nice interesting piece . Its noteworthy that the blade is used on the 'horizontal plane' .....perhaps this aids penetration through the rib cage What was used to bind the bayonet to the musket ?? Regards David

7th July 2009, 12:27 AM	#8
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I appreciate the compliment. I will try to look thru my collection and see if I have one that would fit your bayonet. should give you a idea what to look for in a indian rifle to match the piece