Armor breastplate for coments

fernando · 17th June 2009, 09:15 PM

It has arrived... and is already hanging on the wall

.
Comparing to the usual specs. (Wallace collection), this is a rather heavy example, with its 4,4 Kgs (nearly 10 pounds).
Besides the usual (missing rivets) holes for the usual strapping to the backplate and (maybe) to the tassets, it has an intriguing set of smaller holes on the left chest, however too low for holding a tilt shoulder (pauldron).
Could they be for an insignia? Unlikely, though.
Oh, i wish these things could speak, to tell their history.
One thing i have just read is that, apparently, Portuguese didn't make armour, instead imported it from Italy and Germany.
However Spaniards did. But if the (Spanish) seller tags this example as being European, could be because he has reasons to beleive this is not Spanish.
Aren't there any armour experts around, to have a say about this item ... please?
Fernando

.

celtan · 19th June 2009, 06:36 PM

Nice conversation center !

: )

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

It has arrived... and is already hanging on the wall

.
Comparing to the usual specs. (Wallace collection), this is a rather heavy example, with its 4,4 Kgs (nearly 10 pounds).
Besides the usual (missing rivets) holes for the usual strapping to the backplate and (maybe) to the tassets, it has an intriguing set of smaller holes on the left chest, however too low for holding a tilt shoulder (pauldron).
Could they be for an insignia? Unlikely, though.
Oh, i wish these things could speak, to tell their history.
One thing i have just read is that, apparently, Portuguese didn't make armour, instead imported it from Italy and Germany.
However Spaniards did. But if the (Spanish) seller tags this example as being European, could be because he has reasons to beleive this is not Spanish.
Aren't there any armour experts around, to have a say about this item ... please?
Fernando

.

M ELEY · 9th July 2009, 01:48 AM

No expert, but I think Manolo is right. These marks could correspond to the support for a jousting lance. Still, this appears to be a legit fighting piece of armor vs something used for the festivals or tournament.
BTW, posting a much later breast plate (ca 1810-30) on the Swap...

katana · 9th July 2009, 11:26 AM

Fernando,
those holes seem to be lines of three indents / holes .....a trident attack / damage

Regards David

.

fernando · 10th July 2009, 12:11 AM

Hi David,
Thanks for your imaginative colaboration

. You are quite a solid support for riddling situations

.
But then, it would have to be a 'fivedent'

.
Don't know ... aren't the (five) holes too round for that ? wouldn't trident spikes be of angular cross section?
What sort of tridents? was there such weaponry around this cuirass environment?
Fernando

katana · 10th July 2009, 05:38 PM

Hi Fernando,
the idea of the 'trident' was alittle 'tongue in cheek' but, I hope the pictures and quick (but poor

) diagrams may explain my reasoning....

Regards David

.

fernando · 10th July 2009, 06:05 PM

Hi David,
The diagrams are excelent and self explanatory.
I just wasn't swallowing the combination trident vs cuirass in the same scenary. I would also expect that trident perforations would leave an angular mark, not roundish. But that was only my reflex reaction, not necessarily an everlasting one.
I had a feeling you would react

; not with the sketches, which are super, but with a link showing period soldiers handling a trident. This is actually my main problem with this hipothesis.
My 'default' inferrement is that these marks would have been made to hold an insignia or a device.
Someone has already sugested this could be the marks from the riveting of a joust lance rest, for a left handed guy. But then again i think the holes set would have a different format, and also this breast plate looks more like a warrior than a tilt apparatus ... says i, within my ignorance

.
Yours truly.
Fernando

17th June 2009, 09:15 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Maybe not Iberian, Manolo It has arrived... and is already hanging on the wall . Comparing to the usual specs. (Wallace collection), this is a rather heavy example, with its 4,4 Kgs (nearly 10 pounds). Besides the usual (missing rivets) holes for the usual strapping to the backplate and (maybe) to the tassets, it has an intriguing set of smaller holes on the left chest, however too low for holding a tilt shoulder (pauldron). Could they be for an insignia? Unlikely, though. Oh, i wish these things could speak, to tell their history. One thing i have just read is that, apparently, Portuguese didn't make armour, instead imported it from Italy and Germany. However Spaniards did. But if the (Spanish) seller tags this example as being European, could be because he has reasons to beleive this is not Spanish. Aren't there any armour experts around, to have a say about this item ... please? Fernando . Attached Images

9th July 2009, 11:26 AM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Fernando, those holes seem to be lines of three indents / holes .....a trident attack / damage Regards David . Attached Images

10th July 2009, 12:11 AM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David, Thanks for your imaginative colaboration . You are quite a solid support for riddling situations . But then, it would have to be a 'fivedent' . Don't know ... aren't the (five) holes too round for that ? wouldn't trident spikes be of angular cross section? What sort of tridents? was there such weaponry around this cuirass environment? Fernando Last edited by fernando; 10th July 2009 at 05:47 PM.

10th July 2009, 05:38 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fernando, the idea of the 'trident' was alittle 'tongue in cheek' but, I hope the pictures and quick (but poor ) diagrams may explain my reasoning.... Regards David . Attached Images

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9th July 2009, 01:48 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	No expert, but I think Manolo is right. These marks could correspond to the support for a jousting lance. Still, this appears to be a legit fighting piece of armor vs something used for the festivals or tournament. BTW, posting a much later breast plate (ca 1810-30) on the Swap...

10th July 2009, 06:05 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David, The diagrams are excelent and self explanatory. I just wasn't swallowing the combination trident vs cuirass in the same scenary. I would also expect that trident perforations would leave an angular mark, not roundish. But that was only my reflex reaction, not necessarily an everlasting one. I had a feeling you would react ; not with the sketches, which are super, but with a link showing period soldiers handling a trident. This is actually my main problem with this hipothesis. My 'default' inferrement is that these marks would have been made to hold an insignia or a device. Someone has already sugested this could be the marks from the riveting of a joust lance rest, for a left handed guy. But then again i think the holes set would have a different format, and also this breast plate looks more like a warrior than a tilt apparatus ... says i, within my ignorance . Yours truly. Fernando