An Indonesian knife..but what kind ?

[VVV]

Hello Kai,

Originally Posted by kai

I'm not sure a knife-sized rice reaping tool would be practical. I agree that korambi and Co. probably originated from agricultural sickles but I tend to believe these were specialized back-up fighting blades rather than dual-use tools. All the rice harvesting I've witnessed in SE Asia was done with sickle-like tools held in forward grip rather than the reverse grip.

In the old days rice was harvested in a ritual way with a small hand held knife and by women. This out of respect for the "rice-soul". You can read more about it in f.i. the works of Skeat and Winstedt.
Nowadays it's harvested in an "industrial" way with larger sickles and often by contracted men.
The grip depends of course of the size of the tool as well as other preferences both for harvesting and fighting. In the Sumatran style of fighting with the korambi as I have been taught the forward grip is preferred, not the reverse as seen in the US magazines and in the movies.

Originally Posted by kai

Great: Where, when, which ethnic group?

My bird-hilted Kuku Rimau is said to be collected in Lampung.

Originally Posted by kai

I agree that your example is quite different; not quite sure wether it belongs to the same group of blades as Freddy's though. I'd also like to verify wether the use of this name may be too generic or really specifies a subgroup of blades (at least in the area of interest). I've found several Malay websites utilizing this name for typical kerambit...

As I wrote before the meaning of a name is not fixed but what you make out of it, either we or the Malay websites you found.

Originally Posted by kai

I keep wondering wether these blades were just kept secret enough and/or looked too tiny to escape early colonial collecting efforts?

Ha, ha. Have you watched too many Silat vs Ninja movies lately?
Actually you can find a lot of old colonial research on the development of sickles and curved knives in Asia.

Michael

[kai]

Hello Michael,

In the old days rice was harvested in a ritual way with a small hand held knife and by women. This out of respect for the "rice-soul". You can read more about it in f.i. the works of Skeat and Winstedt.
Nowadays it's harvested in an "industrial" way with larger sickles and often by contracted men.

Actually, I can't recall having seen men harvesting rice from paddies yet...

The grip depends of course of the size of the tool as well as other preferences both for harvesting and fighting. In the Sumatran style of fighting with the korambi as I have been taught the forward grip is preferred, not the reverse as seen in the US magazines and in the movies.

You mentioned index finger through the ring (in harvesting context) - maybe I'm mixing up terminology?

My bird-hilted Kuku Rimau is said to be collected in Lampung.

Thanks!

Now, was the name originally applied/stated by the Lampung owner, a Sumatran runner, or a seller (say, in Singapore)?

As I wrote before the meaning of a name is not fixed but what you make out of it, either we or the Malay websites you found.

Yup, I'm not trying to focus on the name game here. However, before agreeing to stick a name on a given type of blades, I think we should first research the local use of any possibly suitable name. Otherwise we can easily end up with nonsense labels like "piha kaetta"...

Actually you can find a lot of old colonial research on the development of sickles and curved knives in Asia.

Research on the development of curved knifes? Must have missed that - references, please!

I have only found scattered bits and pieces in the primary accounts (Volz, etc.). Most ethnographic research expeditions with reasonably documented, surviving pieces were done in the late 19th to early 20th century. Finding well documented pieces from the 1st half of the 19th c. or earlier is tough for most types of blades. I'd also posit that there was a bias towards larger or more decorated pieces in the early collecting days (e. g. shown by the European curiosity collections which later evolved into ethnographic research collections).

Regards,
Kai

[VVV]

Hello Kai,

Try Google Scholar for lots of articles and references on the curved knives of all ages and places. It seems like the simpler one, were the blade was set 90 degrees on the center of a palm stick, was an earlier rice reaping knife than the korambi.

On the name game I don't really get it.
How can Kuku Rimau, that both of us has seen in local use and which has a logical description of the object, risk to be a nonsense label?

Michael