|
29th January 2009, 06:07 AM
|
#1 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
SUMATRAN hilt? Or?
Dear All,
I am still confused of this hilt. Is it Sumatran hilt? Or, somewhere else? I hope I would get more information on it from you... The hilt size is bigger than Yogyanese hilt, but smaller than Balinese (pls see the picture, for comparison). GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
29th January 2009, 07:11 AM
|
#2 |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
|
Congraturation Ganja!!
A nice, unique piece. IMO is not from Sumatra but it comes from Madura area (floral style) |
|
|
|
|
29th January 2009, 11:54 AM
|
#3 |
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 159
|
Hi Ganja,
Look bit like...  I dont know were its from..but the keris wears a yogja wranka. regards Michel |
|
|
|
|
29th January 2009, 03:47 PM
|
#4 |
|
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
|
The hilt resembles this one which I was told was from North Jawa .
|
|
|
|
|
29th January 2009, 05:30 PM
|
#5 |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,781
|
Hello Ganja,
I also think that this hilt is from Madura or North-East Java. I also can show some examples. But this one is very nice and unique. Regards, Detlef |
|
|
|
|
30th January 2009, 04:49 AM
|
#6 |
|
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
|
All these hilts share the same general shape .......
|
|
|
|
|
30th January 2009, 05:18 AM
|
#7 | |||
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
GANJAWULUNG Last edited by ganjawulung; 30th January 2009 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Mispelled name |
|||
|
|
|
|
30th January 2009, 03:44 PM
|
#8 |
|
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,124
|
I agree with Ganja, the floral motifs on this hilt are markedly different from all the other Madurese examples presented. What is even more a difference though is the presence of the animals represented on this hilt, the stag and the tiger. The other hilts are abstractions while this one is very representational. I'm not so sure it is from Madura either.
|
|
|
|
|
30th January 2009, 05:15 PM
|
#9 |
|
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
|
One Thing In Common
I wonder if in this case we should be looking at the shape rather than the carving .
They all have a N.Coast shape IMO .. Madura interpretation of N.Coast work ??? 
|
|
|
|
|
30th January 2009, 11:33 PM
|
#10 |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
|
Imo the pattern in the nice ivory Ganja hit are very similar to the pattern of islamic (iranian ) carpet where there are hunters on horses and animals like deers, tigers, lions in a garden full of nice trees and flower: Italian name for this carpet is "tappeto da caccia" (hunter carpet). English name:
|
|
|
|
|
31st January 2009, 02:15 AM
|
#11 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
|
Hi all, looking at ganja's hilt, reminds me of elaborately carved dha handles.. although this looks like a north coast keris hilt in shape.. just a thought..
|
|
|
|
|
31st January 2009, 07:08 PM
|
#12 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 318
|
No idea about the background on this one but Ganja this is a really nice handle and well executed! Really love it!
Marcokeris the pattern reminds me of mideavel europe....Ireland? Might it just be a special commision? Maybe even for a European or other foreigner. What are the thoughts on the age of this handle? 19th century, earlier? Regards, Erik Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
1st February 2009, 05:32 AM
|
#13 | |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
WADASAN motifs
Quote:
I tend to agree with Rick. North Coast of Jawa. Maybe good too, if we compare the motifs of the lower-part of the ivory hilt (the base of the floral motifs) with "cirebonese motifs" (North Coast motifs) in Keraton Kasepuhan, Cirebon. Pictures below, show you how the "wadasan" motifs (wadas = rock, but meant for the form of the sky above --- maybe 'cielo' in Spanish) at the upper-part of the white wall gate of Kasepuhan, look similar to the form of the (supposed to be) wadasan motifs in the lower-part of the hilt. Wadasan is the main motifs, the specific characteristic of Cirebonese motifs until now. Derived from their philosophical symbol of 'sky' (probably: rock form of heaven in the sky...) they always used since their oldest Castle of Pakungwati in Keraton Kasepuhan (Cirebon old palace), built by Rakean Walangsungsang (fugitive son of famous Western Jawa Hindhu King, Siliwangi of Pajajaran) in the year of 1452 (15th century). Walangsungsang, and his younger sister Rara Santang fled from Hindhu Pajajaran, because they had turned to Islam religion. Walangsungsang then became Panembahan Cakrabuana, the first king of Pakungwati, Cirebon. The Cirebonese motifs then turned to more abstract motifs, after the Islamic king of Sunan Gunung Jati or Syarif Hidayatullah. Gunung Jati, of Syarif Hidayatullah was the son of Rara Santang (younger sister of Walangsungsang) after married to a Middle-east nobleman -- when they went for Haj in Mekkah.. It is worth to see too, the other pictures below, picturing how "wadasan motifs" also influenced their keris culture. An old Cirebonese keris sheath, with "wadasan" motifs at the upper part of the gandar. Also, other variants of "wadasan motifs" in a Cirebon pedang handle... Anyway, thank you David, Rick, Marco, Alamshah and Erik for your kind respond. Thanks... GANJAWULUNG Last edited by ganjawulung; 1st February 2009 at 06:05 AM. |
|
|
|
|
|
1st February 2009, 06:00 AM
|
#14 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
COMPARISON of Wadasan motifs
Pictures below, more comparison on supposed to be "wadasan motifs" in the lower part of the hilt, and wadasan motifs in Cirebonese keris gandar...
GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
4th February 2009, 10:04 AM
|
#15 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
MIXED style
Dear All,
Do you think this (supposed to be Cirebonese or Northern coast of Jawa) hilt fits in this (Riau) blade and Palembang sheath? GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
4th February 2009, 11:25 AM
|
#16 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 318
|
Dear Ganjawulung
I like all three parts but I would not combine the hilt with this kris. Although the combination looks very nice there does not seem to be the "fit" or "match" in style is my feeling. But this is only my personal subjective opinion. Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
4th February 2009, 02:19 PM
|
#17 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
4th February 2009, 02:30 PM
|
#18 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
|
Quote:
I can't find reference pics at the moment... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
4th February 2009, 03:47 PM
|
#19 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,781
|
Quote:
Hello Ganja, I also think that this hilt not adequate for this nice keris. sajen |
|
|
|
|
|
5th February 2009, 04:24 AM
|
#20 | |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Quote:
GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
|
5th February 2009, 04:32 AM
|
#21 | |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
Quote:
I have another "clouds motifs" or "rock motifs" (wadasan) on a Cirebonese keris sheath. But this is more "islamic" influence -- top of a mosque -- in motifs. And I hope another example on what you mentioned as Chinese chained swastika, I have one but not Cirebonese. It is a "ladrang" (formal) Maduran sheath, with chained swastika or what BluErf said as 'meandering belt'? GANJAWULUNG |
|
|
|
|
|
5th February 2009, 11:48 AM
|
#22 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,781
|
Quote:
Dear Ganja, this fit very good. Like this composition very much. |
|
|
|
|
|
5th February 2009, 12:15 PM
|
#23 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
5th February 2009, 03:50 PM
|
#24 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
|
Ah yes, the last pic shows the 'meandering belt'.
|
|
|
|
 |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
