Introduction with a question

kai · 15th January 2009, 08:34 AM

Hello Detlef,

I'd guess that the tip of the sheath also is ivory?

An experienced seller stated deer antler for a similar Minang Kabau scabbard (and hilt). I've seen references to bones of whales and (Asian) elephant being used, too (BTW, both subject to CITES as are some deers). Of course, old water buffaloes (as default bone source in the region) aren't small animals either. Moreover, bone pieces can have quite different denseness depending on which bones and, especially, which part of it is being utilized.

There seems to be a lot of guesswork when it comes to identifying the source of materials being used for ethnographic pieces; e. g. many horn hilts referred to as rhino seem to be actually buffalo. I'm not sure wether there are forensic reference collections which would allow identifying the origin by non-destructively examining the structure of the materials encountered with antique pieces. Some, like rhino horn and elephant ivory, are more likely to be identified positively than bone though.

I think it would be great if we could try to verify the source of a wide array of materials traditionally being utilized: Modern approaches like DNA sequencing will also have the added benefit to possibly narrow down the origin to a local population rather than to a species or genus only and, thus, being much more informative on the history of an ethnographic piece. While taking the necessary (small) sample damages a piece to some extend, this can often been done where it's not readily visible. Anyone interested to join the fun by making pieces from his/her collection available for study?

Regards,
Kai

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15th January 2009, 08:34 AM	#11
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Detlef, I'd guess that the tip of the sheath also is ivory? An experienced seller stated deer antler for a similar Minang Kabau scabbard (and hilt). I've seen references to bones of whales and (Asian) elephant being used, too (BTW, both subject to CITES as are some deers). Of course, old water buffaloes (as default bone source in the region) aren't small animals either. Moreover, bone pieces can have quite different denseness depending on which bones and, especially, which part of it is being utilized. There seems to be a lot of guesswork when it comes to identifying the source of materials being used for ethnographic pieces; e. g. many horn hilts referred to as rhino seem to be actually buffalo. I'm not sure wether there are forensic reference collections which would allow identifying the origin by non-destructively examining the structure of the materials encountered with antique pieces. Some, like rhino horn and elephant ivory, are more likely to be identified positively than bone though. I think it would be great if we could try to verify the source of a wide array of materials traditionally being utilized: Modern approaches like DNA sequencing will also have the added benefit to possibly narrow down the origin to a local population rather than to a species or genus only and, thus, being much more informative on the history of an ethnographic piece. While taking the necessary (small) sample damages a piece to some extend, this can often been done where it's not readily visible. Anyone interested to join the fun by making pieces from his/her collection available for study? Regards, Kai