Lion Head Knife With Leather Sheath

[drzzzzz]

Hello again! Here is another odd knife and sheath that I recently picked up and again have no ideal what I have. The knife looks like it may be a new item? I purchased this with a group of late 19th - early 20th century Native American items, but does not look American to me. Would appreciate any help in identifying and possible age. Thanks again!

[erlikhan]

These are often sold on ebay. The model is Indian (Asian one) kukri knife but I dont think an old one. Blade is nickel plated. cant be used to cut . I think they are mass produced with old looking sheaths for touristic market.

[Conogre]

Actually, they CAN be sharpened (want to see the scars? **grin**) by using a fine file to carefully remove the nickel plating and the substance applied to the steel beneath it to make the nickel adhere, leaving a steel edge that hones nicely.
This is/was often done on other styles besides kukris, often with the nickle plating heavy enough that it still gleamed 40 -50 years later (I suspect that yours may be circa 1950-1960 and leather that old often looks exactly as does yours)
These were seen in shops all over S. Vietnam in that time period, as a vast majority of shopkeepers were of Indian lineage.
If you REALLY take some time, I've occasionally found some very nice blades underneath all of that plating, some even with hardened edges......most that I spent time "investigating" were the ones with the recurved blades and brass D-guards with similar horn hilts.
Is that a solid brass/bronze (or at least very thick) hilt, by the way?
If so, that IS somewhat unusual, even for these, and likewise the accompanying side knife is different than most as well.
Mike

[erlikhan]

Is there a real steel under the plating ?? I have one of these, and whereever nickel has gone, appears just brown rust. I thought material was not steel but only simple iron or any cheap metal.

[tom hyle]

Plated blades are another of those things that get an unfairly bad name, IMHO. Yes, many modern decorator/"junk" blades that are just not quite modern/up to date enough to be stainless are chromed/nickel plated/etc. Yes, I've even seen Chinese knock-offs of that Giegeresque cutler England's blades made of brass and chromed. But many old blades were plated as a simple preserving method, especially in the days before stainless steel. A lot a lot of old sabres are nickel or tin plated, as a substitute for the then nonexistent (and anyway, undesired in a sword for other reasons) property of stainlessness. I have a nice Case (R, tm, whatever.....) bowie with a chromed blade. Chrome is the bad one to deal with, and I wonder if that isn't what Conogre has dealt with? It is the shiniest, the hardest, and is actually more abrasion-resistant than steel, and makes unhealthy dust, so a file (which cuts) is actually a better way to go through it than a grinder/sander, and was the method I used to sharpen my Case dagger, and it was a rock-solid pain to sharpen. Didn't cut myself (on that one ), but I think it gave me a cramp. If there's a layer of copper under it, it's probably chrome, because copper sticks well to steel and chrome, while they don't really like each other much. Of course where the plating is gone your blade will rust; that's why the plating was there. The association of rust resistance with quality steel is, in terms of traditional carbon steels, completely without basis, AFAIK; it is an industrial ideal, I guess. Some old steels were rather rust resistant. I've read claims this was achieved by temper (as with modern "stainless" steel [no steel is stainless; rust resistant is the proper term], though the effect I mention is not in my experience as full or strong as with modern stainless, by any means.), but of course, alloying, known or unknown, must've played a role.
I like some of the chromed Phillipino stuff, especially.
Mostly it seems to me like another cultural/fashion issue.

[Mick]

Speaking of chromed steel; while in Vietnam I picked up a chrome plated M1A1 Thompson which was left over from World War II in the Phillipines. The exterior of this item was in excellent condition in spite of its age although the barrell showed signs of being well pretty shot out. It (due to the long 10 inch length of the barrel) still shot extremely well easily grouping 2 inches or so at fiftY yards in single shot mode.

However when I was cowboying with it from the hip I started low and while pulling it up to the target, I sliced the frame in half. For some reason this little mishap (besides embarressing the hell out of me) got me kicked off of the National Police range in Saigon. Touchy people considering that in the field no one had the rear stock attached to insure that they sprayed the entire area around where ever the muzzle was pointed.

This is just added to show that chromed steel lasts a long long time as long as the chrome is intact.

[Conogre]

Here in Florida they commonly take small dried seahorses, starfish and sand dollars, dip them in a grey substance of some sort and then gold plate them for use as charms, ear-rings and pendants......having known a lady that worked in one of these small factories for a while was what initially familiarized me with the basic process (and appalled me as a use for wildlife)
In India, as I understand it, jobbers often go from village to village collecting locally made knives and then plate the blades en masse for the tourist market as they are all cheap by US standards, and have been doing so for well over 100 years.
I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some very well made blades underneath many of those shiny eye catchers, particularly those of unusual styles, but it's a LOT of work, any way you look at it.
Mike

[Federico]

Gotta echo the sentiment that these things can be sharpened, but if the blade isnt hardened they dull fast as butter. It can be a real pain though to get through the plating, though plating itself isnt a sign of poor quality. Aside from original plating on construction, some collectors would also plate their blades when they brought em home. Mike had a kris that was plated, and it was a real pain to remove the plating, and then etch.

[tom hyle]

When they rechrome something at the chrome shop, do they strip the old chrome? How? Anyone know?

[Conogre]

According to the Discovery Channel's "Monster Garage", with acid, Tom.
Mike

[tom hyle]

mmmmm....that's what I was thinking, but do they have one that attacks chrome much more than steel? We would be up at the same time, wouln't we ?

[spiral]

drzzzz Most of these lion head kukri are untempered steel tourist pieces, but maybe one in 30 or 40 is tempered carbon steel & works well.

The brass handle is one of the rarer variations.

The scabbard looks oversize & is possibly a later replacment? unless it is the photo angle or somesuch?

Spiral