Mexican Presentation Sword?

[Gonzalo G]

Manolo, the naive or naif movement in painting (please see the Naive School in the history of art), used to represent figures in a very simple manner, almosto childish, just like on the popular art. The use of the colors was also very simple. The most known painter in this movement was el Aduanero Rousseau (Henri Rousseau). That´s what I meant with "naive horses".
Un abrazo, amigo.

Gonzalo

[celtan]

Good answer!

To me, they just look native, but its probably because of my artistically untrained eye. Or it might be cuz' I'm tres naif myself.

Tomate una cerveza fria a mi nombre!

: )

Manolo

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Manolo, the naive or naif movement in painting (please see the Naive School in the history of art), used to represent figures in a very simple manner, almosto childish, just like on the popular art. The use of the colors was also very simple. The most known painter in this movement was el Aduanero Rousseau (Henri Rousseau). That´s what I meant with "naive horses".
Un abrazo, amigo.

Gonzalo

[kronckew]

horsey motif's appear to fairly common decorations, as in this punal which i feel may be Brazilian.


there are also silhouettes of 'naive' horses and cattle etched on the blade.

[celtan]

Actually, horses and their images were very common motifs in very early galician-spanish lore, weapons and shields. The old celtic religions in Galicia had a horse goddess named Epona, or something similar.

Best

M

Originally Posted by kronckew

horsey motif's appear to fairly common decorations, as in this punal which i feel may be Brazilian.


there are also silhouettes of 'naive' horses and cattle etched on the blade.

[Gonzalo G]

Yes, the horse had an important iconographical, social and military role on the old iberic cultures.

The puñal criollo seems to be uruguyan.

¿Eres gallego, Manolo?

My best regards

Gonzalo

[kronckew]

thanks, gonzalo. i figured it was brazilian or uruguayan from the button cover, and was just guessing brazil as it seemed more likely. there is a bugle etched into the ricasso which i assume is a makers mark. uruguayan would be more interesting as i suspect it'd be a bit more uncommon here in the UK i'd posted it before & you were kind enough to comment on it as a traditionally made punal, but we'd not discussed where it was from.

Originally Posted by celtan

Actually, horses and their images were very common motifs in very early galician-spanish lore, weapons and shields. The old celtic religions in Galicia had a horse goddess named Epona, or something similar.

Best

M

my maternal grandmother was from galicia - however, her's was part of the austro-hungarian empire at the time, it's now divided between poland and the ukraine. celts got around.

[celtan]

Hi Guys,

Yep, I'm originally Galician. The interesting thing is that there are actually two Galicias, one in Northwestern Spain, and another in Poland/Austria. In fact, there are many toponimical names in Spain which are basically recreations of others in the Caucasus. To me, they represent the cultural footprints of our common ancestors.

Yes, the celts migrations are a very interesting subject, they reached China, India and even America, long before Colon. An important detail is that these migrations took place in difefrent time periods, and the celtic groups involved were very different in terms of cultures, religion and even language.

There was an old celtic deity, Galeach, the goddes of the earth. From her name arises that of many places and ethnic groups, the Gallegos or Galaics (Galici), the french Gales (Gallics), the Welsh (Wales or Gales).

It seems that Celts and Vikings shared languages, since the Vikings that settled in Jakobsland (Spanish Galicia) did so just on account of that. When the local Celts went to confront their arrival, they reported the Vikings spoke an old version of the celtic language, an were thus family. Both sides hence coexisted peacefully. And that's a miracle by itself, since both groups were very war-prone.

An interesting point is that the eldest celtic and even protoceltic items found have been in Spanish Galicia, not in the Caucasus. Modern Historians are actually rewriting the hsitory of the Celt's origings based on these modern day findings.

Celts had very distinctive metallurgic knowledge and arts, some modern historians claim that the Gladius was not exactly a type of blade, but a type of alloy, and that Romans utilized this term to refer
to antenna-type anthropomorphic swords, long swords, and falcatas made in Spain, not limiting same to the antenna-pommeled type exclusively found in La Tene's urn culture/necropolis.

Well, nuff'sed...

M

Originally Posted by kronckew

thanks, gonzalo. i figured it was brazilian or uruguayan from the button cover, and was just guessing brazil as it seemed more likely. there is a bugle etched into the ricasso which i assume is a makers mark. uruguayan would be more interesting as i suspect it'd be a bit more uncommon here in the UK i'd posted it before & you were kind enough to comment on it as a traditionally made punal, but we'd not discussed where it was from.



my maternal grandmother was from galicia - however, her's was part of the austro-hungarian empire at the time, it's now divided between poland and the ukraine. celts got around.

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by kronckew

thanks, gonzalo. i figured it was brazilian or uruguayan from the button cover, and was just guessing brazil as it seemed more likely. there is a bugle etched into the ricasso which i assume is a makers mark. uruguayan would be more interesting as i suspect it'd be a bit more uncommon here in the UK i'd posted it before & you were kind enough to comment on it as a traditionally made punal, but we'd not discussed where it was from.

The button cover is a more uruguayan feature, but the rounded buttom could be also brazilian. It is not impossible that a brazilian blade mounter silversmith could use the button cover in this times. Uruguay is a small country in the south limits of Brazil, and the areas where those puñales are used is shared along the borders. The stamps or marks on this puñal must be examined carefully.
Regards

Gonzalo