keris blade for comment.

Rick · 11th April 2005, 09:39 PM

Arsenic Trioxide plus liver of sulpher perhaps ?
Remember I am no chemist .

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 10:44 PM

Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

I think I'll pass.

nechesh · 11th April 2005, 11:52 PM

Yep, Tom, that's the way my mom made liver as well.

No Wayne, I just used the arsenic trioxide, just as specified by the formula in the thread i passed on. It works just fine.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 11:54 PM

OK nechesh.

I have posted a new thread... Plastic Keris. There you will see what it looks like now.

capt.smash · 11th April 2005, 11:52 PM

BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt.smash

BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.

Thanks Smashy!

If my memory is correct (and I am getting older, so don't hold me to it), Potassium Sulfide reacts more quickly than traditional Warangan. So I will start with a more dilute solution. I will experiment on the pesi first and see what happens. Thanks for the help.

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 01:14 AM

I been looking for Arsenic Trioxide (As2O3)... and I found it, it is a bit pricey. I still think Potassium Sulfide will do the trick (its cheap and safer to use), it will make silver black! It is used to make patinas on other metals too. I guess we'll see what happens...

nechesh · 12th April 2005, 02:44 AM

Wayne, when i bought my arsenic it was $25 a gram, but the hazzardous material fee was almost as much as the arsenic itself. But using the method i use actually uses very little at a time, so i still have a bit left. You will probably get a good effect from potassium sulfide, but i doubt you will get the "correct" color for the particular iron of your blade. Given the keris you are experimenting on this might not be a big concern, but it would probably make a difference in a cultural context.

Rick · 12th April 2005, 02:51 PM

Hi Wayne , I have even run into problems getting one (yes I sin) particular keris blade even clean enough for staining . I washed it with every available solvent from acetone to paint stripper , long soaks , strong detergent afterward . Then I would put it in my oven to warm it for staining and it still reeked of sandalwood oil , even after repeated efforts . The blade seemed to be impregnated through and through with the stuff .

I have tried Liver of sulpher (get out your gas mask!) on blades with no success . I think I've also used Muriatic , FECL , most anything I could find that was readily available . It will be interesting to see what your results will be .

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 07:11 PM

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the heads up!

If you have any contamination from oils, staining will not occur.

The blade I have pictured, smells kind of like ivory soap. It has been washed and blacked (maybe ink like a magic maker?) but not oiled. Maybe I'll get lucky and not have to work through the oil problem?

Muriatic or Hydrochloric Acid (HCI) could be used to etch the blade, but would do so poorly on its own.

FECL (I assume you mean Ferric Chloride) is also mildly acidic and used widely to etch blades.

I do not think either of these will remove oil. Generally, solvents would be your best approach (you may have to immerse the blade over nite, scrub and repeat until the oil is removed), if you know what solvent would break down or dissolve the oil you are dealing with (you may have more than just natural organic oils, but mineral oil and other synthetic oils, which would likely need a different solvent to efficiently remove it). Unfortunately, you have to know the oil you are removing to know what solvent to use.

Once you are down to bare metal, Potassium Sulfide will blacken the iron. And yes, it creates some H2S (hydrogen sulfide, btw.. it is toxic), the good ole rotten egg smell (it can't be any worse than my wife’s feet, can it?).

That's why I use it outside with plenty of ventilation.

I will show the good, the bad and the ugly (sounds like a movie).

12th April 2005, 01:14 AM	#8
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	arsenic trioxide (As2O3) I been looking for Arsenic Trioxide (As2O3)... and I found it, it is a bit pricey. I still think Potassium Sulfide will do the trick (its cheap and safer to use), it will make silver black! It is used to make patinas on other metals too. I guess we'll see what happens...

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11th April 2005, 09:39 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,418	Arsenic Trioxide plus liver of sulpher perhaps ? Remember I am no chemist .

11th April 2005, 10:44 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

11th April 2005, 11:52 PM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Yep, Tom, that's the way my mom made liver as well. No Wayne, I just used the arsenic trioxide, just as specified by the formula in the thread i passed on. It works just fine.

11th April 2005, 11:54 PM	#5
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	OK nechesh. I have posted a new thread... Plastic Keris. There you will see what it looks like now.

11th April 2005, 11:52 PM	#6
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.

12th April 2005, 02:44 AM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wayne, when i bought my arsenic it was $25 a gram, but the hazzardous material fee was almost as much as the arsenic itself. But using the method i use actually uses very little at a time, so i still have a bit left. You will probably get a good effect from potassium sulfide, but i doubt you will get the "correct" color for the particular iron of your blade. Given the keris you are experimenting on this might not be a big concern, but it would probably make a difference in a cultural context.

12th April 2005, 02:51 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,418	Hi Wayne , I have even run into problems getting one (yes I sin) particular keris blade even clean enough for staining . I washed it with every available solvent from acetone to paint stripper , long soaks , strong detergent afterward . Then I would put it in my oven to warm it for staining and it still reeked of sandalwood oil , even after repeated efforts . The blade seemed to be impregnated through and through with the stuff . I have tried Liver of sulpher (get out your gas mask!) on blades with no success . I think I've also used Muriatic , FECL , most anything I could find that was readily available . It will be interesting to see what your results will be .

12th April 2005, 07:11 PM	#11
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hi Rick, Thanks for the heads up! If you have any contamination from oils, staining will not occur. The blade I have pictured, smells kind of like ivory soap. It has been washed and blacked (maybe ink like a magic maker?) but not oiled. Maybe I'll get lucky and not have to work through the oil problem? Muriatic or Hydrochloric Acid (HCI) could be used to etch the blade, but would do so poorly on its own. FECL (I assume you mean Ferric Chloride) is also mildly acidic and used widely to etch blades. I do not think either of these will remove oil. Generally, solvents would be your best approach (you may have to immerse the blade over nite, scrub and repeat until the oil is removed), if you know what solvent would break down or dissolve the oil you are dealing with (you may have more than just natural organic oils, but mineral oil and other synthetic oils, which would likely need a different solvent to efficiently remove it). Unfortunately, you have to know the oil you are removing to know what solvent to use. Once you are down to bare metal, Potassium Sulfide will blacken the iron. And yes, it creates some H2S (hydrogen sulfide, btw.. it is toxic), the good ole rotten egg smell (it can't be any worse than my wife’s feet, can it?). That's why I use it outside with plenty of ventilation. I will show the good, the bad and the ugly (sounds like a movie).