Sundang, moro kris or whatelse?

Flavio · 30th September 2008, 06:30 PM

David,

You say you can't see anything that indicate a peninsula origin, but how do you explain the strangeness of this kris? like the non-moro etching and the horn handle? I ask just to know

Regards
Flavio

Bill · 30th September 2008, 07:33 PM

Flavio, It' different but the pics don't tell the whole story, at least for me.
First you have to figure what was original to the sword & I would guess nothing.
The scabbard is top grade but I doubt it's very close to be as old as the sword. It looks to me as Bugis/Malay.
I'm not sure about the blade itself. Could it be that it was over-cleaned with some sort of acid or chemicals?
The stirrup & metal rings look fairly new. If someone carried that sword everyday they would be dented/scraped.
Surprised there is not more opinions on the hilt pommel. I don't think it's horn, but I don't know what type of Ivory. Some sort of tooth? It looks like it broke, was repaired & filled; then stained to make the repairs less noticed.

Flavio · 30th September 2008, 08:33 PM

Thank you Bill! For sure the pommel was restored, there is some kind of putty... What I'd like to know is if also the rest of the handle is restored/replaced since a handle of horn is very strange for an "original" moro, but if it was from another place than could be original.... Anyway the collar around the pommel shows some losses, I will post some pics.

Thanks
FLavio

spiral · 1st October 2008, 12:27 AM

I know nothing about these blades or even the scabbard timber origins but looking at the Schreger angles the pommel is 100% Elephant ivory definatly not mamooth or any form of sea tooth..

Spiral

David · 1st October 2008, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

You say you can't see anything that indicate a peninsula origin, but how do you explain the strangeness of this kris? like the non-moro etching and the horn handle?

As for the blade Flavio it just looks like abuse and someone's perhaps misguided attempt to "restore" it. Can't speak for the hilt being horn. Could be a later addition, a marriage that is not quite traditional. A replacement. Who knows. The ivory pommel looks Moro to me though and as Spiral has pointed out, the reason there have not been more opinions on it is that it is pretty obvious even to me that it is 100% elephant ivory. A few have mentioned that they think the sheath is peninsula or Bugis in origin, but i am pretty sure i have seen this type of sheath used by the Moro and i also think that the toe of the sheath stem has a distinct Moro termination.
How is the fit of the blade in the sheath anyway? Was this sheath made for this blade?

Flavio · 4th October 2008, 07:16 PM

Here are some pics of both sides of the blade, the putty on the pommel and the fit with the scabbard

Battara · 5th October 2008, 01:40 AM

Flavio,

These pictures now give me the impression that this is not horn but something over the wood. IT can fool and look like horn. Again, I would say that twisted silver or jute was there originally.....

Flavio · 5th October 2008, 08:58 AM

Jose,

maybe the "horn" is somethng different, but for sure is not the putty that you can see where the pommel meets the handle. I can't be able to find the mineral spirit you told me. Can I use something else to see if the handle and the pommel were stained? Maybe another kind of diluent?

Thanks
FLavio

Flavio · 5th October 2008, 11:56 AM

Well, I have used a strong diluent (nitro) both on the pommel and the handle. Nothing is changed, so both were not stained and the color is due to the patination.

Flavio · 12th October 2008, 10:02 AM

No more comments?

I have noted that many moro collectors members often doesn't comment on others moro pieces... I can't understand why

....

4th October 2008, 07:16 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Here are some pics of both sides of the blade, the putty on the pommel and the fit with the scabbard Attached Images

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30th September 2008, 06:30 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	David, You say you can't see anything that indicate a peninsula origin, but how do you explain the strangeness of this kris? like the non-moro etching and the horn handle? I ask just to know Regards Flavio

30th September 2008, 07:33 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Flavio, It' different but the pics don't tell the whole story, at least for me. First you have to figure what was original to the sword & I would guess nothing. The scabbard is top grade but I doubt it's very close to be as old as the sword. It looks to me as Bugis/Malay. I'm not sure about the blade itself. Could it be that it was over-cleaned with some sort of acid or chemicals? The stirrup & metal rings look fairly new. If someone carried that sword everyday they would be dented/scraped. Surprised there is not more opinions on the hilt pommel. I don't think it's horn, but I don't know what type of Ivory. Some sort of tooth? It looks like it broke, was repaired & filled; then stained to make the repairs less noticed.

30th September 2008, 08:33 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Bill! For sure the pommel was restored, there is some kind of putty... What I'd like to know is if also the rest of the handle is restored/replaced since a handle of horn is very strange for an "original" moro, but if it was from another place than could be original.... Anyway the collar around the pommel shows some losses, I will post some pics. Thanks FLavio

1st October 2008, 12:27 AM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I know nothing about these blades or even the scabbard timber origins but looking at the Schreger angles the pommel is 100% Elephant ivory definatly not mamooth or any form of sea tooth.. Spiral

5th October 2008, 01:40 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,404	Flavio, These pictures now give me the impression that this is not horn but something over the wood. IT can fool and look like horn. Again, I would say that twisted silver or jute was there originally.....

5th October 2008, 08:58 AM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Jose, maybe the "horn" is somethng different, but for sure is not the putty that you can see where the pommel meets the handle. I can't be able to find the mineral spirit you told me. Can I use something else to see if the handle and the pommel were stained? Maybe another kind of diluent? Thanks FLavio

5th October 2008, 11:56 AM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Well, I have used a strong diluent (nitro) both on the pommel and the handle. Nothing is changed, so both were not stained and the color is due to the patination.

12th October 2008, 10:02 AM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	No more comments? I have noted that many moro collectors members often doesn't comment on others moro pieces... I can't understand why ....