More Chinese stuff

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Klas Larsson

Hi Gavin, I like to show an example of a similar looking shuang dao, that I have. And I must agree on that, the move so good, new ones I have are much to heavy and clumsy for practice, and I was very pleased when I found these, chuffed is the word...

These looks very much the same, but hard to know just from pictures. But reading this I see they are much thinner at the hilt. They are 74 centimeters long, and blades are 60 centimeters, with 4 millimeters thickness, and 31 millimeters width at the hilt, giving them point of balance at 14 centimeters from the handle. The condition is very good but with a few nicks, but it sounds like I shouldn't dwell on that, seeing that there have been heated debates although that looks like its from play, not actual usage...

Thanks for coming in Klas,

Great to see another pair shared. Personally I have never been sure on the shuang dao with the cupped brass guards and although I have come across a number of them over the years I have avoided them in preference to the steel guard dao. Upon seeing these though, I am swaying a little more, the wrap is consistant, though not wrapped in a manner to which I am accustomed and they sport lanyards of the same material too . They are also more consistant with a length that I thought would have been more suitable to use in combat and share the same triple fuller arrangement, do they show a hardened inserted edge at all?
The pommels have a nice hoof profile, though they do differ somewhat in the fact that mine have a flat surface on the inside, not that they sit flat against each other in the scabbard, just an observation.
The hilt length is just under 180mm to the underside of the guard, the blade length 770m from guard to tip, 35mm wide across at the hilt and at their widest point are 50mm. The balance point on these are 210mm from the guard.
I do wonder what the colouring of the scabbard, the varience in length and the solid brass guards do mean overall.
Thank you for offering up another lovely pair of unusual swords, I like them very much...now to hunt some more down....I certainly would like to play with some shorter versions.

thanks

Gav

Gav

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gavin,

Thank you for going to the trouble of posting the sword's dimensions, especially the POB. Any idea of their individual weight?

Klas Larsson,

Lovely swords - Thanks for sharing.

Cheers
Chris

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks for popping into the other posting Chris, it gave me the memory bump I needed to post the answer to you questions.

The total weight in the scabbard for both dao is 2.25kgs.
Each sabre weighs 950 grams.

thanks

Gav

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Thanks for popping into the other posting Chris, it gave me the memory bump I needed to post the answer to you questions.

The total weight in the scabbard for both dao is 2.25kgs.
Each sabre weighs 950 grams.

thanks

Gav

Hi Gavin,

Much obliged.

Cheers
Chris

[KuKulzA28]

Having a big fascination for Chinese dao and shuang dao I thought I'd resurrect this thread with questions...

Do they tend to be as long/heavy as many normal dao?
In my mind, it seems if they were a bit shorter than average and a bit lighter than average, they'd be easier to whirl around and kill... Also a shorter dao would be faster to draw. But then again I'm sure, like most weapons of the time, sizes varied quite a bit.

I have seen very few examples of shuang dao online, and all of them ox-tails... but how common were Goose-quills and Willow-leaves in the double bladed style?


Thanks!

[Neil]

I am certainly not discounting others thoughts on their use, but they would make for a fine and beguiling street performance tool as well.

[josh stout]

I love double weapons and have been thinking about these questions for a while. Full size shuang jian are extremely rare, while full size shuang dao are only slightly more common. The examples of these that I have seen are all late 19th c. or later. Earlier examples of both jian and dao tend to have had blades around 20 inches or shorter and frequently show signs of substantial use. These older examples tend not to be in as good condition. I have a book of woodblock prints showing Ming period soldiers using various kinds of siege towers that shows a substantial proportion using two willow-leaf shaped swords. There are several woodblock prints showing these types of soldiers, but they are the only examples I have seen. Usually double weapons are a sign that the user did not belong to the regular army. The woodblocks are interesting to note for their very specific depictions. The soldiers with two swords were part of groups, preparing to clear defenders from walls. I suspect that in regular massed combat, double swords could have been too dangerous for ones own side. They seem particularly good for wading into masses and having at it, rather than being part of a mass fighting another mass.

Also it has been noted that there would have been a considerable surprise element for a double weapon wielder. This would make sense for a caravan guard or someone working for a security firm, but no one would run screaming if they were calmly looking out over an apposing army and one of them suddenly produced two swords. As further evidence of the lack of the need for surprises of this sort when part of a large army, it can be seen in the wood block examples that the swords have full round guards. Thus they were much more likely to be simply a matched set rather than true shuang dao. Surprise was not the issue, clearing the wall was the issue.

Unfortunately, matched sets of willow leaf or other dao have probably all been split up and might not be recognized even if they did exist. I saw a matched set of training dao once that was split up because it was not understood that the swords might belong together. I do have two sets of sword breakers that are sets, but not designed to fit in a single sheath. I bet there used to be more sets of different kinds of weapons that are now split.
Josh

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Neil

I am certainly not discounting others thoughts on their use, but they would make for a fine and beguiling street performance tool as well.

I agree. My dao most likely for street performance