Spanish Rapiers, a Bilbo FYC.

Atlantia · 23rd September 2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Gene,

Can you read Spanish (Castillian) ?

http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/49-Conchas.pdf

another one:

http://perso.wanadoo.es/jjperez222/tropacab.htm

Fernando

LOL, I can pick out a few words! But the pictures speak volumes!!
The last picture on this page:
http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/49-Conchas.pdf

Has BIG similarities to my sword. Can't wait for more information, keep it coming :-)

Jim McDougall · 23rd September 2008, 06:29 PM

I just opened this thread, and you guys are truly amazing! It is fantastic to see such excitement and discussion, especially that everybody is turning to whatever resources are at hand to add comments, and that everyone's comments become more and more constructive. This is the kind of threads I had hoped would develop here, and not only do we have a fantastic sword as the object of discussion, but clearly some equally fantastic observers!!

Please keep it going guys!! Outstanding discourse

All the best,
Jim

celtan · 23rd September 2008, 11:10 PM

Precisely. that's a german made version.

Best

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

LOL, I can pick out a few words! But the pictures speak volumes!!
The last picture on this page:
http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/49-Conchas.pdf

Has BIG similarities to my sword. Can't wait for more information, keep it coming :-)

Atlantia · 24th September 2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

Precisely. that's a german made version.

Best

M

LOL< thanks, I couldn't even read that much! ;-)

Regards
Gene

Atlantia · 24th September 2008, 09:43 PM

This thread has thrown up an interesting question.

Manuel has informed us that 'SAHAGUN' could refer to a family of Toledo armourers.

I always assumed that it was a bastardisation of Solingen.

It's also a town in Spain!

Can we nail this sword to one of the three definately?

Also, the flower designs on the shells. Does anyone have any thoughts on them?

LOL, this thread has thrown up more questions than I thought it would and I'm very keen to explore them in more depth.

Thanks again to everyone for hleping with this.

Gene

celtan · 24th September 2008, 10:42 PM

Hi Jim,

Sahagun refers to the Toledo armourers, topographic coincidences nonwithstanding

Their name was so much copied,(like the dog trademark of Master "Perrillo" was by Passau) that it even changed across time, from Sahagun, to Samacum, long after the armourers had become dust.

Regarding the flower, it looks to me like a "margarita", a sunflower.

Best

M

fernando · 24th September 2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

...Can we nail this sword to one of the three definately? ...

The name Sahagun comes from a village in the province of Leon, called as such after the marthirdom of two saints, whose name gave its origin, after a couple corruptions. It has nothing to do directly with swords.
Alonzo Sahagun was one of the best sword makers Toledo ever saw and lived around 1570. He had a shop in la Calle de los Armeros.
In the case of your piece, i'd go for the version of a Solingen alusion to the master's name.
... but what do i know ?

Fernando

fernando · 24th September 2008, 10:58 PM

Hoops, Manolo has posted on the Sahagun thing, in the meantime

.
Fernando

Atlantia · 24th September 2008, 11:03 PM

Hmm, Well I did buy it as a circa 1580 sword, and I always believed it was early rather than late. Is it too much to hope that it was actually made by the Sahagun father?

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23rd September 2008, 06:29 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	I just opened this thread, and you guys are truly amazing! It is fantastic to see such excitement and discussion, especially that everybody is turning to whatever resources are at hand to add comments, and that everyone's comments become more and more constructive. This is the kind of threads I had hoped would develop here, and not only do we have a fantastic sword as the object of discussion, but clearly some equally fantastic observers!! Please keep it going guys!! Outstanding discourse All the best, Jim

24th September 2008, 09:43 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	This thread has thrown up an interesting question. Manuel has informed us that 'SAHAGUN' could refer to a family of Toledo armourers. I always assumed that it was a bastardisation of Solingen. It's also a town in Spain! Can we nail this sword to one of the three definately? Also, the flower designs on the shells. Does anyone have any thoughts on them? LOL, this thread has thrown up more questions than I thought it would and I'm very keen to explore them in more depth. Thanks again to everyone for hleping with this. Gene

24th September 2008, 10:42 PM	#6
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Hi Jim, Sahagun refers to the Toledo armourers, topographic coincidences nonwithstanding Their name was so much copied,(like the dog trademark of Master "Perrillo" was by Passau) that it even changed across time, from Sahagun, to Samacum, long after the armourers had become dust. Regarding the flower, it looks to me like a "margarita", a sunflower. Best M

24th September 2008, 10:58 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hoops, Manolo has posted on the Sahagun thing, in the meantime . Fernando

24th September 2008, 11:03 PM	#9
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hmm, Well I did buy it as a circa 1580 sword, and I always believed it was early rather than late. Is it too much to hope that it was actually made by the Sahagun father?