My first Keris.....but is it a good one??

asomotif · 12th August 2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

I think that you will find that the "jewels" are plastic---if you're real lucky they might be glass.

Often they are indeed semi precious plastic

A. G. Maisey · 12th August 2008, 02:37 PM

You know, theoretically plastic jewels are just fine in Bali art work. All the texts tell us that in Bali art the important thing is the final effect,not the value of the materials used to achieve that effect, this is the reason that you will not infrequently find diamonds and rubies mixed up with glass in court pieces.

So, if you need to use a bit of plastic to achieve that final effect, does it matter?

My guess is that it does not matter to the Balinese, although we might find it a bit off-putting. But they don't really have to please us bules, do they?

katana · 12th August 2008, 06:41 PM

Thank you very much for all your replies

Sorry lemmythesmith for 'pipping you at the post'

It was the blade's obvious pamor and the nicely carved hilt that attracted me. I wanted at least one to add to my collection. (mind you, I said that when I obtained a Dha ...and now I have two

)
Should I be alittle disappointed that this is in 'tourist dress' ? Hopefully, the jewels are not 'semi-precious' plastic

But having said that, plastic strips were highly prized by a number of African tribes, due to its scarcity. Thanks A. G. Maisey for the 'hint' about the price I paid, its nice to know I didn't pay over the odds.

When I receive it I will post better pictures and discription.

Kind Regards David

David · 12th August 2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Should I be alittle disappointed that this is in 'tourist dress' ?

Well, that depends on what you were looking for in the first place. As has been pointed out, as this particular "tourist" dress form goes, this one is fairly well executed. But this isn't the type of dress that you would expect to find on a blade that was used within the culture in the time period that this blade is from. This is a reasonably nice old Bali blade as far as i can tell from these photos. The dress, however, is probably no older that the 1960s, maybe later (does anybody know when this type of dress first appeared?) and AFAIK never the type of dress that was used within the culture for a serious person's keris. I have heard it suggested that this type of dress may have been used for theatrical purposes, but i have never had that confirmed.
To re-dress this blade probably would not be worth it to you. As is i would say it is definitely worth having, especially if your cost was low. But....if you are looking for a good example of a traditional blade (which this is) in appropriate dress (which this isn't) i am afraid that you will probably be looking for a second keris soon.

katana · 12th August 2008, 08:44 PM

Hi David

,
thanks for the 'enlightenment', I actually quite like the 'dress' as it is......its the word 'tourist' ...it always gives me the impression of 'poor quality', souvenir wallhangers....which this one does not seem to be. I have seen some 'tourist quality' keris before, these had thin blades and poorly carved hilts ...so please excuse my knee jerk reaction to the word.. 'tourist'

Regards David

PS You are probably right, I can see this one being the first...of a few

David · 12th August 2008, 09:20 PM

Hi David. I was making no attempts at "enlightenment" here, just merely responding to your question.

There is a reason that i use the word "tourist" in quotation marks. It is not a word i like using simply because it carries a lot of preconceived ideas with it. I don't mean it as a gauge for quality levels. I am just trying to point out that from a cultural perspective this type of dress is not what a Balinese man would general use for his personal keris. I would be interested to know more of the history of this sheath form if anybody knows it, whether it was developed just for the tourist trade or if there is some credence to the idea that they may have been used in traditional theater.
Again, the blade itself is certainly not of "tourist" quality. As for hilts though i would have to say that this is a fairly low level of carving for this particular hilt form. I have often seen old blades like this turn up in this style dress. I have always just figured that someone used what was cheap and available so that they could market the keris without to much of an investment involved. I have a nice one in a variation of this sheath form. It too is a decent carving like yours and the keris fits it perfectly so i kept it and just replaced the hilt with something nicer.

Henk · 12th August 2008, 10:13 PM

David,

At least you are lucky finding a real keris blade in this keris. I saw this one to on ebay. I think as Alan pointed out that the carving isn't so bad on this one. These type of keris vary from a rather nice carved example with a real blade to a very quickly carved dress with a cut out blade from a sheet of metal with painted pamor. This is certainly tourist stuff. If you're lucky the precious jewels are glass beads.
These kind of keris are used in barong dances, also performed for tourists. I can imagine that during these performances this kind of keris are sold to the public.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12th August 2008, 02:37 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,152	You know, theoretically plastic jewels are just fine in Bali art work. All the texts tell us that in Bali art the important thing is the final effect,not the value of the materials used to achieve that effect, this is the reason that you will not infrequently find diamonds and rubies mixed up with glass in court pieces. So, if you need to use a bit of plastic to achieve that final effect, does it matter? My guess is that it does not matter to the Balinese, although we might find it a bit off-putting. But they don't really have to please us bules, do they?

12th August 2008, 06:41 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thank you very much for all your replies Sorry lemmythesmith for 'pipping you at the post' It was the blade's obvious pamor and the nicely carved hilt that attracted me. I wanted at least one to add to my collection. (mind you, I said that when I obtained a Dha ...and now I have two ) Should I be alittle disappointed that this is in 'tourist dress' ? Hopefully, the jewels are not 'semi-precious' plastic But having said that, plastic strips were highly prized by a number of African tribes, due to its scarcity. Thanks A. G. Maisey for the 'hint' about the price I paid, its nice to know I didn't pay over the odds. When I receive it I will post better pictures and discription. Kind Regards David

12th August 2008, 08:44 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi David , thanks for the 'enlightenment', I actually quite like the 'dress' as it is......its the word 'tourist' ...it always gives me the impression of 'poor quality', souvenir wallhangers....which this one does not seem to be. I have seen some 'tourist quality' keris before, these had thin blades and poorly carved hilts ...so please excuse my knee jerk reaction to the word.. 'tourist' Regards David PS You are probably right, I can see this one being the first...of a few

12th August 2008, 09:20 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,267	Hi David. I was making no attempts at "enlightenment" here, just merely responding to your question. There is a reason that i use the word "tourist" in quotation marks. It is not a word i like using simply because it carries a lot of preconceived ideas with it. I don't mean it as a gauge for quality levels. I am just trying to point out that from a cultural perspective this type of dress is not what a Balinese man would general use for his personal keris. I would be interested to know more of the history of this sheath form if anybody knows it, whether it was developed just for the tourist trade or if there is some credence to the idea that they may have been used in traditional theater. Again, the blade itself is certainly not of "tourist" quality. As for hilts though i would have to say that this is a fairly low level of carving for this particular hilt form. I have often seen old blades like this turn up in this style dress. I have always just figured that someone used what was cheap and available so that they could market the keris without to much of an investment involved. I have a nice one in a variation of this sheath form. It too is a decent carving like yours and the keris fits it perfectly so i kept it and just replaced the hilt with something nicer.

12th August 2008, 10:13 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	David, At least you are lucky finding a real keris blade in this keris. I saw this one to on ebay. I think as Alan pointed out that the carving isn't so bad on this one. These type of keris vary from a rather nice carved example with a real blade to a very quickly carved dress with a cut out blade from a sheet of metal with painted pamor. This is certainly tourist stuff. If you're lucky the precious jewels are glass beads. These kind of keris are used in barong dances, also performed for tourists. I can imagine that during these performances this kind of keris are sold to the public.