Malela luk 5 for comment.. - Page 2

David · 30th May 2008, 04:53 PM

Mr. Parong Sari has made quite a lot of assumptions since his arrival here Penangsang. He is not unlike the rude house guest who arrives unannounced, knows no one at the party, yet then presumes to make all kinds of comments about all their lives and values.

In fact, i have already informed him that we have a few silat practitioners here (and i believe a couple of teachers as well), yet he choses to ignore this information. This is the true meaning of ignorance, that when one is presented with facts one consciously choses to disregard them.
I, for one, physically work with my keris everyday, it is in fact an important part of my daily spiritual practice. They don't just hang on my wall. But that is unimportant. As i have also already informed Parong, this is a collectors forum, not a silat forum. We do not pass judgement of people here who like to just collect keris and appreciate their beauty though there is, of course, much more than just beauty to all keris, both Malay and Indo. I don't consider Parong a better or worse human being merely because he can see no other purpose for a keris than to cause physical harm to another. It does, however, show a certain amount of ignorance on his part. And saying that Javanese keris are only for display shows just how little you know about them.

"No doubt both parong sari and tameng sari was made in Majapahit, but the fact that they both fell in the hands of hang tuah is because the art of fighting using a keris.. the tameng sari was killed by his own keris.. (that's what happen when you try to thrust someone's belly button without knowing the art of using a keris). the legend continues since then the people of indonesian lost their confidence in using keris as a weapon and preferred other weapons as an alternative.."

It is also obvious from this passage that you do not have a very clear understanding of these legends or the history of the Indonesian people. I suggest you try a little reading and Mr. Maisey has suggested a very good start for you.

I appreciate that you take pride in your culture and you arts, but you seem to do so with arrogance and ignorance , a very dangerous combination. It is nice that you have come to the defense of this posted Malay keris, but as i look back on this thread i see very little posted about it that is actually negative. The only negative remarks came from the only person on this forum who has actually apprenticed for years in the art of keris making with a known and respected kraton empu, so i find his analysis on the construction of this keris just a little more valuable than yours.

BTW, you still have not supported you assertion that this keris was forged with silver or why you even think that.

kai · 31st May 2008, 01:06 AM

How about the Malay and Indonesian word for village? I assumed that the different transliterations (kampong vs. kampung) were the result of different European nations and their respective languages (or rather their respective utilization of the Roman alphabet).

Even if a given Indonesian word wasn't in use in the Malay language, wouldn't it feel more natural to a Malay speaker to write "parong" rather than "parung"? Just curious - Malay and Indo speakers please educate me...

Regards,
Kai

David · 31st May 2008, 01:11 AM

Kai, i understand your curiosity on this, but i think this thread has digressed far enough from it's original intent already. I suggest that we begin talking about Zartane's keris again or perhaps it is time to lock this thread up and move on.

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30th May 2008, 04:53 PM	#31
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Mr. Parong Sari has made quite a lot of assumptions since his arrival here Penangsang. He is not unlike the rude house guest who arrives unannounced, knows no one at the party, yet then presumes to make all kinds of comments about all their lives and values. In fact, i have already informed him that we have a few silat practitioners here (and i believe a couple of teachers as well), yet he choses to ignore this information. This is the true meaning of ignorance, that when one is presented with facts one consciously choses to disregard them. I, for one, physically work with my keris everyday, it is in fact an important part of my daily spiritual practice. They don't just hang on my wall. But that is unimportant. As i have also already informed Parong, this is a collectors forum, not a silat forum. We do not pass judgement of people here who like to just collect keris and appreciate their beauty though there is, of course, much more than just beauty to all keris, both Malay and Indo. I don't consider Parong a better or worse human being merely because he can see no other purpose for a keris than to cause physical harm to another. It does, however, show a certain amount of ignorance on his part. And saying that Javanese keris are only for display shows just how little you know about them. "No doubt both parong sari and tameng sari was made in Majapahit, but the fact that they both fell in the hands of hang tuah is because the art of fighting using a keris.. the tameng sari was killed by his own keris.. (that's what happen when you try to thrust someone's belly button without knowing the art of using a keris). the legend continues since then the people of indonesian lost their confidence in using keris as a weapon and preferred other weapons as an alternative.." It is also obvious from this passage that you do not have a very clear understanding of these legends or the history of the Indonesian people. I suggest you try a little reading and Mr. Maisey has suggested a very good start for you. I appreciate that you take pride in your culture and you arts, but you seem to do so with arrogance and ignorance , a very dangerous combination. It is nice that you have come to the defense of this posted Malay keris, but as i look back on this thread i see very little posted about it that is actually negative. The only negative remarks came from the only person on this forum who has actually apprenticed for years in the art of keris making with a known and respected kraton empu, so i find his analysis on the construction of this keris just a little more valuable than yours. BTW, you still have not supported you assertion that this keris was forged with silver or why you even think that.

31st May 2008, 01:06 AM	#32
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	How about the Malay and Indonesian word for village? I assumed that the different transliterations (kampong vs. kampung) were the result of different European nations and their respective languages (or rather their respective utilization of the Roman alphabet). Even if a given Indonesian word wasn't in use in the Malay language, wouldn't it feel more natural to a Malay speaker to write "parong" rather than "parung"? Just curious - Malay and Indo speakers please educate me... Regards, Kai

31st May 2008, 01:11 AM	#33
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Kai, i understand your curiosity on this, but i think this thread has digressed far enough from it's original intent already. I suggest that we begin talking about Zartane's keris again or perhaps it is time to lock this thread up and move on.