Guns From Space? Maybe not!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Fernando

Who is to say that these could have been European style pistols that were reworked? I have a Moroccan dagger with the same spiral motif on the scabbard and damascus gun barrels were more often seen on Ottoman and Arabic guns than European ones. Of course clearer pictures would help . If these guns were from Argentina than they could have originally came from Spain or surrounding area tell me how far is Spain from Morocco anyway?

Lew

Well Lew, if you put it that way
But let me take this chance to point out where my place is in Portugal
Fernando

[Lew]

Originally Posted by fernando

Well Lew, if you put it that way
But let me take this chance to point out where my place is in Portugal
Fernando

Fernando

I know you live in Portugal I was only joking .


Lew

[fernando]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Fernando
I know you live in Portugal I was only joking .
Lew

I know, i know
Just couldn't resist to spot my place, when i saw that map .
Fernando

[Jeff Pringle]

There was a discussion a while back on whether or not you could positively identify meteorite in keris blades, looks like science has caught up with our speculations!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2899

[David]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pringle

There was a discussion a while back on whether or not you could positively identify meteorite in keris blades, looks like science has caught up with our speculations!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2899

Jeff, thanks for bringing this up. This was what i was most hoping to get into discussion about in this thread. My feeling is that they really have not caught up. I am inclined to believe that what they were able to prove here was not that there is no meteoric ore in these pistols, merely that there is not meteorite from the Campo del Cielo crater in Argentina. By comparing the metals they can find dissimilarities, but i still don't see how they can conclusively state that after going through an intensive forging process of repeated melting, heating and hammering that no meteoric ore was used in these pistols....or that it was.

[Lew]

Hi Fernando

I dug this out of my closet. This is an early 20th century or earlier Moroccan/Algerian dagger with the same inset wire design as seen on the pistols.

Lew

[fernando]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Hi Fernando

I dug this out of my closet. This is an early 20th century or earlier Moroccan/Algerian dagger with the same inset wire design as seen on the pistols.

Lew

Impressive ... couldn't be more similar.
Not only the spiral efects but also the waves inside the paralel lines.
Now, are these decors a Moroccan (or Algerian) exclusive or could they, instead of being a localized custom, belong to a general culture ... Muslim, for what counts ?
I guess that firearms are rather more complicated to dissecate their origins than white (edged) arms. They are built with far more components, often each one of them provenant of the most distinct places.
In the other hand, General Alvarez wrote in that letter that the pistols were the first essay on manufacturing arms in Buenos Aires. Maybe manufacturing was a "strong" term and they only assembled them, but obviously some enterprise was taking place there; there is no smoke without fire.
This way the importing of the components was potentially from Spain, even if they were not Spanish ... although obviously not from Morocco, even being a surrounding area
But once in the field of speculation, it could be that the General had the pistols stocks decorated by comission, a custom often used for presentation pieces.
In such case, he might have ordered such fancy work from a Moor
Let me stop the nonsense
Fernando

[Lew]

Originally Posted by David

Jeff, thanks for bringing this up. This was what i was most hoping to get into discussion about in this thread. My feeling is that they really have not caught up. I am inclined to believe that what they were able to prove here was not that there is no meteoric ore in these pistols, merely that there is not meteorite from the Campo del Cielo crater in Argentina. By comparing the metals they can find dissimilarities, but i still don't see how they can conclusively state that after going through an intensive forging process of repeated melting, heating and hammering that no meteoric ore was used in these pistols....or that it was.

David

They might have been looking for Iridium in the gun barrel which can indicate the presence of meteoric metals? Below is a Indian dagger made from meteoric Iron.

Lew

[lemmythesmith]

Hi all! Iridium is present in all meteorites, as are Gallium and Germanium (at least in the ones I've bashed about ) so the test would probably be for these elements-none of the above, not meteoric in origin....

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

Well Lew, if you put it that way
But let me take this chance to point out where my place is in Portugal
Fernando

Aha! now i know what that spikey thing is in the other thread, you tie a rope to it and yourself, and drive it into the mountain to keep you from falling off while you tend the grape vines in the douro valley. (i & the then wife spent two weeks driving around northern portugal a few years back, loved it. especially liked staying in small pensions in fortified hilltop villages in the area. she was a vegetarian, so had a bit of trouble with the food, and ate green salads for 2 wks. but i loved it. )

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Aha! now i know what that spikey thing is in the other thread, you tie a rope to it and yourself, and drive it into the mountain to keep you from falling off while you tend the grape vines in the douro valley. (i & the then wife spent two weeks driving around northern portugal a few years back, loved it. especially liked staying in small pensions in fortified hilltop villages in the area. she was a vegetarian, so had a bit of trouble with the food, and ate green salads for 2 wks. but i loved it. )

Then you must come back ... and visit me at the sea side . You may bring Blue and Millie ; we shall introduced them to my "grandson" Afonso (my daughter's doggy) .
... And no green salads for them; we can spare some Afonso's dry biscuits .
Fernando

[Gonzalo G]

With all due respect, they look like european pistols to me, though decorated in a moroccan fashion. By the way, spaniards forged (not produced) wootz from India, and made mechanical damascus until mid 19th Century. There is documental evidence of this fact. The style of the pistols, does not reminds me any of the styles seen in North Africa, the Middle East and Turkey. Of course, I can be wrong.
Regards

Gonzalo