Wootz or Mechanical Damascus?

[TVV]

A friend of mine in Bulgaria recently acquired this sword, with a Turkish style hilt and what appears to be an Indian blade, based on the existing ricasso. He cleaned and etched the blade and was pleasantly surprised to discover a nice pattern. The question is, is this wootz or not?
I personally am inclined to think that it is pattern welded, but I am interested in your opinion. Also, any comments on the origin of the sword and its dating are more than welcome.

Thank you,

Teodor

[Lew]

Looks Like wootz to me Kirk Nirban if I am spelling it correctly?

Lew

[Jeff D]

Hi Teodor,

I vote mechanical damascus. With that activity (tight swirls) most likely Indian made.

All the Best
Jeff

[ALEX]

Teodor, I understand your inclanation to think of this as mechanical. It does show well formed, bold and prominent pattern. Jeff also has a good point about the mechanical "swirls".
However, as pointed out by Lew, it displays some planar distortions, and what clearly appears to be a "ladder" formation, aka "Kirk Narduban" wootz pattern (and very attractive one So, I am with Lew.
Let's see what others think...
My guess on age, and very distant one, would be late 18/early 19th Cent.

[galvano]

mechanical damascus
galvano

[RSWORD]

I also vote for a mechanical damascus and would love to see it polished up properly as the blades current state doesn't allow the full appreciation of the pattern. While you do see a vertical distortion it doesn't appear to be regularly appearing at least from the pics we can see. Also, a ladder pattern is a mechanical manipulation of wootz and this can also be done in a pattern weld. Another note is the lack of a pattern at all along the edge. This would suggest the blade has a high carbon inserted edge plate with the mechanical damascus "cheeks". An inserted edge along with the active pattern does seem to point to India as a possible origin of the blade.

[TVV]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your quick replies. I chose the photos, on which the pattern resembled wootz the most on purpose. Now here are some additional photos, which I think will support Rick's excellent observations.

Regards,

Teodor

[ariel]

I vote for mechanical.
There are plenty of "ladder-like" mechanical examples in Manfred Sachse's book. Rick is unquestionably correct: ladder is an artificial embellishment and can be applied to either variety of damascus-type blades. And, of course, the inserted edge is a dead giveaway.
Nice blade, no doubt.

[Lew]

Yes now that better pics are posted I must change my opinion mechanical it is.

Lew

[Andrew]

+1 Mechanical. +1 Indian.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Yes now that better pics are posted I must change my opinion mechanical it is.

Lew

As I mentioned earlier - I am with Lew and especially after seeing the rest of the blade:-)
Nice blade!

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by Jeff D

...
I vote mechanical damascus. With that activity (tight swirls) most likely Indian made.

All the Best
Jeff

Speaking about swirls: what do you think about this image? The swirls occur in wootz as well?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Like said before, most likely Indian and mechanical. Here is a picture of the ladder in mechanical pattern.

[rand]

When I think of mechanical patterns a topography map comes to mind. If the pattern looks map like it is a mechanically made pattern. The pattern on this sword looks very map like as when elevation changes are noted, so to me its a pattern weld.

rand

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Speaking about swirls: what do you think about this image? The swirls occur in wootz as well?

Alex,

Yes, you do get swirls or circular distortions in wootz as well. Your image is most certainly wootz. And nice wootz at that!

[Jeff D]

Hi Alex,

As you note the swirls certainly do appear in wootz. Its how they appear that determines if they are from wootz or mechanical damascus. Like Rand states, the mechanical pattern is more topographical and actually appears to have dips and valleys. I will post a piece of Indian wootz as well for contrast.

All the Best
Jeff

[ALEX]

Thanks to all for collaboration, and for posting wonderful examples and fantastic damascus closeups! Finally I see a "ladder" with mechanical pattern (Thanks Jens).
Even though I consider myself wootz-knowledgeable, sometimes I am not 100% sure. Like with the blade below. I thought it is wootz (low contrast/sham), but is it?