also some pictures....

Jim McDougall · 14th January 2008, 05:57 AM

Excellent shots of the various sword components, blade tips etc.
The Hindu basket hilts are both Mahratta and Rajput. Most interesting are the 'old Indian hilts' which seem to have remained with Mahrattas, and while the Hindu basket hilts came in quite early, these remained concurrently into the 18th century.
There appear to be pattisas in the first group and cannot tell in the second as it is unclear which blade tips belong to which swords.

The two swords with the chakram/mandala forte are interesting and difficult to properly date and identify, especially the example with paluoar type hilt as noted with similar example in Elgood (p.121, fig.11.17) which suggests it might be from northern Deccan regions, possibly 19th c. The other one, though the hilt reflects Hindu basket hilt form has the tulwar type curve back on upper knuckleguard. Both blades seem to carry similar fullering in the blades suggesting similar period, despite variation.

The cobra/pahari attribution noted seems a bit vague and suggests these may be from regions to the east of Afghanistan through Punjab to Himachal Pradesh, where the Pahari people represent much of the population into Himalayan regions. The cobra term presumes naga association which is often presumed with shapes relating to the snakes hood, but with these the disc associates more with the mandala/chakra, as described in Elgood.

As I have mentioned, most impressive grouping of outstanding examples, which would do well being discussed singly.

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14th January 2008, 05:57 AM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Excellent shots of the various sword components, blade tips etc. The Hindu basket hilts are both Mahratta and Rajput. Most interesting are the 'old Indian hilts' which seem to have remained with Mahrattas, and while the Hindu basket hilts came in quite early, these remained concurrently into the 18th century. There appear to be pattisas in the first group and cannot tell in the second as it is unclear which blade tips belong to which swords. The two swords with the chakram/mandala forte are interesting and difficult to properly date and identify, especially the example with paluoar type hilt as noted with similar example in Elgood (p.121, fig.11.17) which suggests it might be from northern Deccan regions, possibly 19th c. The other one, though the hilt reflects Hindu basket hilt form has the tulwar type curve back on upper knuckleguard. Both blades seem to carry similar fullering in the blades suggesting similar period, despite variation. The cobra/pahari attribution noted seems a bit vague and suggests these may be from regions to the east of Afghanistan through Punjab to Himachal Pradesh, where the Pahari people represent much of the population into Himalayan regions. The cobra term presumes naga association which is often presumed with shapes relating to the snakes hood, but with these the disc associates more with the mandala/chakra, as described in Elgood. As I have mentioned, most impressive grouping of outstanding examples, which would do well being discussed singly.