Keeping a keris for protection

[pakana]

"sometimes the isi up to that point he can not come back "

What do you mean with that semar?You mean that there is also a possibility for the spirit to "leave" the keris for some reason?Because someone told me also that this could happen sometimes

george

[semar]

hello George i mean that the isi or spirit how you call it sometimes the strength so far gone is that now offering ore pray can help to get it back
because the keris have for years no offerings or other things to keep its power and i will go away in the long term and you have a kris with now power
you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

[pakana]

Hello semar,

So you think that a jin and isi are completely different?Please elaborate in that difference.Thanks.

george

[David]

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

[Pusaka]

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

Dear Pusaka,

I believe if you have an old keris and do not know the history of the keris, its not advisable to keep the keris at home. You will never know "who" is residing in the keris, I mean, the "isi".

In order to solve this problem, you will have to find a wiseman or a person very knowledgable in keris philosophy, and get him to communicate to the empu and the isi. How the keris should be treated, how its to be cleaned, how its supposed to be dressed, what kind of assistance can the isi give and everything there is to know. Only then you will be able to decide whether an old keris should be in your collection or otherwise

[pakana]

Dear Penangsang,

You are right.But in order for the keris to "reveal" itself to a wiseman or magus, it has to be strong enough, just like semar said. Otherwise it is impossible for it to accomplice that task.

And I was told that the "resident" inside is not something invited "in" to stay, but the sum of the thoughts,intention, and (part) of spirit of the maker.So when you "communicate" with a keris, actually you communicate with the spirit of the long dead empu..freaky!!

george

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by David

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Generally speaking, when an empu forges a keris, he would perform certain ritual such as mutih fasting, patigeni, meditation etc, and recites special prayers to imbue special power into the keris, called the "isi". In my limited knowledge, the actions undertaken by the empu is actually calling unseen being (normally Djinn) to reside in the keris, and would help the keris owner depending on the reason why the keris was ordered by the owner in the first place, i.e. commerce, protection, war etc etc. Depending on the "ilmu" of the empu. and later on the owner, the power of the "isi" or Djinn may vary from one keris to another....

Just my 0.02 cents.

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Well Penangsang, i didn't actually "discount" anything. What i wrote was that they "don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to".
This is not to say that a Djinn could not get into a keris either, but i am not convinced that this particular type of spirit is the same that empus once embued into keris.
It should also be kept in mind that very,very few of the keris (if any) in most of our merger collections (yes, some of you lucky devils are exceptions) were actually made by empus. Most of even the good ones were probably made by highly skilled village smiths. Whether these were given the same type of spiritual attention as an empu made piece is highly debateable, but this doesn't mean that these keris do not hold energy from other sources such as the continued practice of holding and honoring the keris by it's owners passed down over generations.

[Pusaka]

I know some of you guys have loads of keris, hundreds! If you believe this then your house must have several spirits either helping or trying to kill you

You dont necessarily need an adept to tell you if a keris is good or not, some people put the keris under their pillow when they first get it. If their dreams are bad they simply get the keris out of their house.

Any of you ever own a keris you thought was bad?

I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by semar

you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

I think there is a forth which is a current which flows through the blade. Like the mantra it wont last for long if its not renewed.

Is pamor type really a system of signposting the type of isi within the keris?