Tulwar Hilted Kora

Norman McCormick · 19th December 2007, 07:11 PM

Hello,
Yes, this is the one from e-bay.
Regards,
Norman

Norman McCormick · 19th December 2007, 08:18 PM

Hello again,
Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. Olikara thanks for the input, I suppose, regardless of nationality, we all look at images and reference them to our own cultural experience hence the European crown rather than the perfectly feasible alternatives you put forward. On the other hand with European influence having been a factor in India and the surrounding regions for many centuries it is not unreasonable to expect a certain amount of cultural crossover. Getting back to the figure, I would also be interested in any images of the type of shield you mention. Another member has mentioned that the object in the figures left hand could be a Dhal, although this is a possibility I'm not so sure, one warrior two shields seems impractical though not impossible especially if the one in the left hand was a Madu Dhal or something similar which could be used offensively as well as defensively. I'm still of the opinion that the symbols on the left hand are esoteric to some degree, a semicircle and dots seem to appear with regularity on Indo-Persian weapons. All comments and ideas sought. Once again many thanks to all who have taken the time to post replies.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 19th December 2007, 09:07 PM

I think David brings in a good suggestion, that the semi circle in one hand, which is along with the high degree of stylizing in the figure, is quite possibly a shield of some kind. While it is well known, as Norman has noted, that the semi circle with dots is indeed often on Indian weapons and others, this is what is known as 'sickle marks' imitating 'quality' markings on European blades. This example, does not approximate that mark as the sickle marks appear as opposing semi circles with dots, not singly (please see 'early makers marks' thread to see more on this). As much as I would like this part of the figure to incorporate esoteric symbolism, which is often the case, I dont think the overall intent shown in the inscribed figure warrants that possibility.

I find Olikara's notes most interesting, however hesitate to think of a martial arts shield being represented on what appears to be a combative weapon. Although the boomerang suggestion remains compelling, again the degree of latitude in the art typified in the inscribed figure still seems strongly coincidental appearing on a kora with the same dual waved tip (which as noted does not occur on the boomerangs). Also, the discussion has focused on the fact that this weapon is from Bengal...not Nepal. In one post I noted the koras present in east coast India southern regions in the 17th c.

Concerning the 'crown', the same stylizing already discussed suggests this may be varying manner of headress, with various components often used as insignia or symbolic intent, rather than a European 'crown'. David's very astute observation on the 'bow and arrow' is well placed, and the parasol may well be the image intended here as well.

Best regards to all,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 19th December 2007, 09:15 PM

Hello again,
Yes, it might just be the obvious, a warrior with a sword (Kora) and a shield.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 19th December 2007, 09:21 PM

Me again,
Still looking for input on the question of sword/wrist knots with regard to Indian weapons.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 19th December 2007, 10:07 PM

Norman,
To the best of my knowledge the 'sword knot' as used by European cavalry on sabres was not employed on Indian swords. In many cases the tang button (capstan in western parlance, = mogra in Indian) was pierced for the purpose of disassembling the hilt. There was certainly variation in this application, and various piercings and holes were often intended to add certain festoons or auspicious ornament, but I am not aware of these used as attachments to tie to the wrist.
Regards,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 19th December 2007, 10:38 PM

Hi Jim,
There is a thread on this forum entitled "How old is the Kora as a type",
there is a painting illustrated and on the right are seated three warriors, the middle one has a Tulwar at his side and what looks like a wrist loop attached to the top. I am sure I have also read somewhere, can't remember where, that mounted Indian warriors sometimes attached their swords by a cord to their waists to avoid losing a weapon during combat. Of course all the aforementioned is just conjecture on my part but my curiosity was aroused after handling the Tulwar with the script.
Regards,
Norman.

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19th December 2007, 07:11 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,593	Hello, Yes, this is the one from e-bay. Regards, Norman

19th December 2007, 08:18 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,593	Hello again, Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. Olikara thanks for the input, I suppose, regardless of nationality, we all look at images and reference them to our own cultural experience hence the European crown rather than the perfectly feasible alternatives you put forward. On the other hand with European influence having been a factor in India and the surrounding regions for many centuries it is not unreasonable to expect a certain amount of cultural crossover. Getting back to the figure, I would also be interested in any images of the type of shield you mention. Another member has mentioned that the object in the figures left hand could be a Dhal, although this is a possibility I'm not so sure, one warrior two shields seems impractical though not impossible especially if the one in the left hand was a Madu Dhal or something similar which could be used offensively as well as defensively. I'm still of the opinion that the symbols on the left hand are esoteric to some degree, a semicircle and dots seem to appear with regularity on Indo-Persian weapons. All comments and ideas sought. Once again many thanks to all who have taken the time to post replies. Regards, Norman.

19th December 2007, 09:07 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,905	I think David brings in a good suggestion, that the semi circle in one hand, which is along with the high degree of stylizing in the figure, is quite possibly a shield of some kind. While it is well known, as Norman has noted, that the semi circle with dots is indeed often on Indian weapons and others, this is what is known as 'sickle marks' imitating 'quality' markings on European blades. This example, does not approximate that mark as the sickle marks appear as opposing semi circles with dots, not singly (please see 'early makers marks' thread to see more on this). As much as I would like this part of the figure to incorporate esoteric symbolism, which is often the case, I dont think the overall intent shown in the inscribed figure warrants that possibility. I find Olikara's notes most interesting, however hesitate to think of a martial arts shield being represented on what appears to be a combative weapon. Although the boomerang suggestion remains compelling, again the degree of latitude in the art typified in the inscribed figure still seems strongly coincidental appearing on a kora with the same dual waved tip (which as noted does not occur on the boomerangs). Also, the discussion has focused on the fact that this weapon is from Bengal...not Nepal. In one post I noted the koras present in east coast India southern regions in the 17th c. Concerning the 'crown', the same stylizing already discussed suggests this may be varying manner of headress, with various components often used as insignia or symbolic intent, rather than a European 'crown'. David's very astute observation on the 'bow and arrow' is well placed, and the parasol may well be the image intended here as well. Best regards to all, Jim

19th December 2007, 09:15 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,593	Hello again, Yes, it might just be the obvious, a warrior with a sword (Kora) and a shield. Regards, Norman.

19th December 2007, 09:21 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,593	Me again, Still looking for input on the question of sword/wrist knots with regard to Indian weapons. Regards, Norman.

19th December 2007, 10:07 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,905	Norman, To the best of my knowledge the 'sword knot' as used by European cavalry on sabres was not employed on Indian swords. In many cases the tang button (capstan in western parlance, = mogra in Indian) was pierced for the purpose of disassembling the hilt. There was certainly variation in this application, and various piercings and holes were often intended to add certain festoons or auspicious ornament, but I am not aware of these used as attachments to tie to the wrist. Regards, Jim

19th December 2007, 10:38 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,593	Hi Jim, There is a thread on this forum entitled "How old is the Kora as a type", there is a painting illustrated and on the right are seated three warriors, the middle one has a Tulwar at his side and what looks like a wrist loop attached to the top. I am sure I have also read somewhere, can't remember where, that mounted Indian warriors sometimes attached their swords by a cord to their waists to avoid losing a weapon during combat. Of course all the aforementioned is just conjecture on my part but my curiosity was aroused after handling the Tulwar with the script. Regards, Norman.