Burmese, East Asian Mak Chopper?

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Tim,
Great deductive reasoning there!! I'm right with ya! The idea of vestigial representation for the jingles in the crenallations makes a lot of sense and a more rudimentary example for 'field' use , cf. dress sword vs. combat sword.
Like you, throat cutting and such grim matters is the least enjoyable facet of consideration in examining the plausible function of this piece for me. I do agree with Katana in his observation that an edge on the inside curve would seem more functional for such purpose. The sharpened outer edge suggests use in a chopping fashion rather than a drawcut.

Returning to the size of this weapon again, it seems that in Asian regions the primary weapon was typically much as in many aboriginal areas, either the bow and arrow or spear. Edged weapons were typically secondary and used in close quarters melee. While not suggesting this piece would be in that category, it is simply a suggestion for consideration overall since we have examined so many aspects of the ceremonial /sacrificial potential due to similarity to ram dao. It would seem that ram dao, like the kora and other chopping type weapons, had combat counterparts, and like the kukri, could be used as a utilitarian implement as well. In discussions some time ago, as I mentioned concerning the Afghan lohar, the smaller size of these did not dismiss possible combative use especially in close quarters or as with Afghans in stealth attacks with easily concealed weapons. The British occupiers took a dim view of tribesmen carrying weapons.

Something else that we need to look at is the interesting symbols or characters deeply stamped in the blade. Do these coincide with others that might be found on examples from suggested regions, like the knife you included earlier? What might these represent?

[Tim Simmons]

Jim. It is too light to chop. That is why a went with the African razor it is like a razor. The Nepalese Ram Dao link is too much of a match to think of Africa any more for me right now. It would make an excellent slashing secondary weapon. Held with the blade facing you I think it could do a serious unpleasantness to man or beast. Or the other way for that matters.

[Battara]

The only problem with the ram do connection is that the ram do or other sacrificial knife like that in Nepal has an eye that is the symbol of Durga, the consort of Shiva and it is her avatar in a sense that cuts the head off the animal. Without the eye, it is not "alive" with her presence.

If it is a sacrificial weapon, I would put it with India or somewhere else.

[Jim McDougall]

Hey Battara!! I was hoping you'd come in on this!
The symbolism of the eye is indeed key on these sacrificial weapons and thanks for adding the detail on Durga. What I'm wondering is if every ram dao was sacrificial, and how widely was the ram dao (realizing of course degree of variants) diffused?
Although as Tim notes, this item is too small for effective chopping, it is still of a size for close quarters slashing. Then if intended for such use, the question on the unusual crenallations arises again since that would suggest ceremonial use. Truly a conundrum!!

[Tim Simmons]

Elgood mentions the eye but includes pictures of sacrificial weapons without the eye. Perhaps the eye is not always a prerequisite?

[fearn]

I've been watching this with interest, but I'll admit I don't have a lot of answers. What got me into this is the cane knife that katana posted. I've got one. Cold Steel sells these (under the title "two handed machete") and they are choppers with 2 mm thick blades. However, the overall length is over 80 cm, and the chopping power derives from the long handle. Balance wise, mine handles like an axe, rather than a sword, and it's a decent machete.

While the thinness of the blade doesn't disqualify it, the short length does. It's hard to get a good chop out of a short knife, although it's possible (I've tried). From a purely functional perspective, it's not well-built. That curved panga blade would be great, if the blade was 40 cm, not 20 cm. I'd believe it was a weapon if it had a decent point, or if the blade was so heavy (i.e. an axe) that it could cut well despite its short length. If it's not a weapon, that means it is some sort of ceremonial/decorative/experimental thingie.

My 0.0002 cents,

F

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hey Battara!! I was hoping you'd come in on this!
The symbolism of the eye is indeed key on these sacrificial weapons and thanks for adding the detail on Durga. What I'm wondering is if every ram dao was sacrificial, and how widely was the ram dao (realizing of course degree of variants) diffused?

To my knowledge every ram do was sacrificial and has eye on both sides. Not every sacrificial Indian subcontinental knife is associated with the ram do however.

[Tim Simmons]

This picture next to a large kitchen knife might help get a better feel. The kitchen knife is pretty much the same weight perhaps a few grams more, 250g but my kitchen scales are not the most sensitive. The knife could chop some chicken bones like wings or legs once the flesh is parted. It might cut off a finger of if placed on a board but one would need force, unlike the kitchen knife it is not as wieght forward. It is not as well tempered as the kitchen knife. So it is a slashing cut knife. I am getting dizzy with this one. I will try and put what we have so far in some kind of order.

Indian/Bengal,Nepal? origin.
prestige wood handle with some mythology, and in it's usage. {something about Kali the mother, great fire and coromandel wood being the result and link to Kali}
similarity to certain sacrificial weapons.
cuts rather than chops.

[Tim Simmons]

The butchers knife has got soaring to new dizzying heights. This knife has been used to do some chopping.



I might speculate that the crenelations represent the jingles to ward off demons during the ritual.

The blade is of a form related the sacrificial knives.

The black wood to associate with kali in the act of destroying the ego.

Sky Burial?

Incidentally the Ram Dao in the link, the figure at the handle end is Shiva with the staff thing in CourseEights post "what did I just buy?" so that Ram dao appears to have Shiva and Kali present not only as the black wood and ivory.