A Kris-Tanto or hybridation as an answer

[Antonio Cejunior]

David,

Just an exceptional post to clarify a couple of things. I chose you to reply to, but my answer was not directed at you personally.
This being said, and having gone out and come back, I had the time to think about other associations in art, since what differs is my way of expression along with my interaction with Paolo Abrera.
I disagree about the forced hybridization that you mention for various number of reasons which I'll fundament.
1. I had the biggest opportunity to see a large number of swords of all kinds at the HOS exhibition and do allow me the right to be able to assimilate. I did not do it without seeing the real thing. Actually the original design was enriched by Paolo's input. I do know what is the reason for the baca-baca.
2. Cultural hybridization nowadays take much less time with the information society, otherwise any American smith who is doing a Japanese style sword would be subject to your invalidation. Cultural appropriations are, therefore, today of a different level and time.
3. No one objected to the incorporation of distant Japanese culture in paintings by the Impressionists nor organic shapes of Art Nouveau are exempt of Orientalist or even pseudo orientalistic influences. There was no direct contact.
4. Pablo Picasso was never in Africa, but it wasn't less legitimate of him to "take possession" of African masks shapes in his Demoiselles D'Avignon that led to Cubism.

Actually you are obviously entitled to like it or not. I did in fact anticipate what I just wrote above when I said that in the webpage that Then, slowly, hybridation as a cultural process of appropriation, viewed exogenously so as not to be bound by traditions, as too often, too much knowledge becomes to restrictive of creative freedom.

This was already written before the knife was finished.

I understand that once you say I have very little interest in custom knife making as a modern art form you have already blocked any possibility of liking anything because you already carry with you a parti pris.

I do remain open to both ancient and new experimentations. That is why I decided not to discuss. Because there is no discussion possible

Cheers

[David]

Originally Posted by Antonio Cejunior

I understand that once you say I have very little interest in custom knife making as a modern art form you have already blocked any possibility of liking anything because you already carry with you a parti pris.

Actually i don't believe this is so. I like what i like when i see it. If a blade strikes me, be it old, new or some hybrid it will be something i give fair consideration to. If it happens to be a hybrid style custom knife i am not going to say to myself, oh no, i can't possibly like that, it's a custom hybrid. Antonio, you really make a whole lot of assumptions about me without having any idea who or what i am.
Again, i am not questioning the validity of cultural hybridization and i don't think anyone else here has either, so i am not sure why you feel it is necessary to justify it with your examples of impressionist painters and Picasso's "stolen" african cubism. All i have questioned is the validity of your particular project. Period. For me it doesn't work in this case. You have all the creative freedom you like to create whatever hybrid art you like...and i have the freedom not to like your result....and if you choose you post it here and ask people what they think that is what you are likely to get, opinions.

[Jim McDougall]

Just thought I would say this session of art appreciation 101 has been most interesting! and I am glad that Antonio rejoined us here.
I would like to note that I honestly have always been focused on the study of antique arms and armor with focus on ethnographic edged weapons and have never really thought much about modern custom made edged weapons.
Actually, I never really liked the idea of reproduction or custom pieces since they had no historical value so could not be studied or researched

While I can claim no particular expertise in the study of art, I have very much enjoyed studying its historical applications and of course its considerations in the material culture associated with ethnographic studies. I do not believe that one must be an expert in art to genuinely appreciate it, and has has been seen here, certainly not to have adamate opinions on particular forms of it.

When I first saw the weapon Antonio posted here, I was more than impressed by it, and realized that I could admire and enjoy viewing this weapon as art, at least in my own perception. My perspective on the study of antique edged weapons remains completely uncompromised, and I have gained new perspective on these custom weapons.
Thank you very much Antonio for posting this beautiful example of well designed craftsmanship.

Since we are all sharing our opinions, I wanted to express mine.

Very best regards,
Jim

[Tim Simmons]

Antonio's work displays confidence, something needed to show it here, which is more than I can say for myself. In doing so the full spectrum of opinion must be expected.

[Ian]

Thanks Tim, my thoughts also. Antonio's work is an inspired piece of art, with ethnographic weapons as its source. As art, it does not need to mean anything in the original culture(s), nor be functional. Just something to appreciate for its form and elegance (not that traditional arms lack form and elegance ).

A challenging piece, Antonio. Thanks for showing it here.

Ian.

[Mark]

Speaking as a moderator, I think the discussion has settled with a fair understanding on all sides, and I am happy to see that. Some feathers were ruffled (innovation & change tends to evoke that response), but I am very glad that the initial testiness has cooled off. In response to one unanswered question, whether or not this qualifies as an "ethnographic" weapon for the purposes of this forum, it of course pushes the boundries, as does the design itself. Having authored in part the mission statement of the forum, I can say that the intent to exclude "custom" knives was directed at contemporary blades that are either essentially reproductions (often of excellent quality) of historical forms, and modern designs that are not based on any particular historical model. It is hard to classify a design such as Antonios, but I think it is enough of a cultural expression, both as a reflection of past forms and as a contemporary reaction to these.

Speaking as a "private citizen," I think the design is interesting and dramatic, and the workmanship is superb, but doesn't strike a cord with me personally. That is probably because I don't have a particularly strong interest in either Japanese or Philippine blades. After all, they are not dha. I do see a functional aspect of the baca baca, actually, as it substitutes for the habaki that appears on a traditional tanto.

Hybridizations and interpretations, often dramatic ones, are a real part of the history of weapons. An example I posted on recently is the hybrid daab/katana/keris that is the subject of this thread.

[asomotif]

Dear Antonio,

You touched a lot of collector hearts with this piece. or maybe hurt a lot of collector hearts.

I am more of the 'old school' too, but i am again amazed about the skills and traditional labour that has been put into it.

And as for the influence / hybridation.
In old days warriors would go on a journey or maybe for battle and weapons exchanged, traded or taken from the loosing party would cause influence.
Now we have books / internet / international fairs / seminars.
This is our present way of influencing, so seems fine with me.
As long as it results in these kind of unique objects please continue.

Good luck and best regards,
Willem