keris and spirit

[Pusaka]

Hello David, I know I am a bit of a wonderer but I do like to visit occasionally

Kiai,

I need to explain myself clearer because I think my analogy has confused everyone
The energy that flows through a keris blade is not common magnetism and neither is it produced by magnets in any way. I don’t agree with Mr. Sanders if he says it is, actually I don’t agree much with anything Mr. Sanders says but that’s just me. I used the analogy of a bar magnet simply to say that the material a keris is made from can affect its ability to carry a current/energy just in the same manner the material from which a bar magnet is composed of can produce a strong magnet or a weak magnet. A keris blade is not made with magnets and neither are they traditionally used to energies the keris. I have noticed however that some keris are slightly magnetic, put the blade near a magnetic compass. Today when we use the term magnetism it means one thing however in the passed the Victorians acknowledged different types of magnetism for example animal magnetism (a concept similar to the Indian concept of Prana and the Chineese concept of Qi/Chi.


Regards

D

[pakana]

Greetings everyone,

I noticed that some of the forumites felt a little strange with the usage of the chinese word Yin.My purpose was to make the distinction about the spiritual side of the keris,by using the word Yin, which refers to the spirit world. We, us humans, we are characterised as Yang creatures(because we have flesh and bones), while the spirits that don't have actual existance, are refered as Yin creatures. So, a keris "resident" is a Yin creature.I used chinese terms,because they are more familiar to the western world.Also I don't know javanese

regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Hello David, I know I am a bit of a wonderer but I do like to visit occasionally

I have always considered myself a bit of a wonderer as well, though i assume that what you meant to say is that you are a wanderer. Anyway, glad you wandered by.
Bram, i think i am pretty much on the same page as you and i certainly never meant to imply that magnetism has any traditional place in the understanding of keris spirits. There are many elements of my personal practice which have nothing to do with traditional Indonesian practices. Sorry if i confused you.
Pakana, i am not so sure that i would regard a chunk of iron ore meteorite "yin" simply because it falls from the sky. Place of origin is not always a very good factor in this determination. Man (yang) is, afterall, born of woman (yin). Infact, i would be much more inclined to consider meteorite as "yang". It is extremely dense stuff and hits the earth with great force and velocity. Very yang elements in my book.
I would also be very hesitant to say that the making of a keris is a "far more complicated" procedure than the making of a katana. If this had been posted on the general forum you would probably be hear quite a bit more about that by now.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

I have always considered myself a bit of a wonderer as well, though i assume that what you meant to say is that you are a wanderer.

BWHAhaha...yep thats what I meant lol

[pakana]

David,

I didn't said that a meteorite is Yin because of it's origin from the sky.I just said that a keris blade(with it's "resident") is consider to be yin(using again the chinese term) because of it's spirit inside.

[David]

Sorry...that seemed to be the implication i was getting with the concept of the combination of earth iron and meteorite being a marriage of Earth and Sky.
You wrote: The usage of metal was very important, because of the yin element of it. Together with the usage of meteor material,was literaly the "marriage" of sky(meteor) and the earth(iron).
Metal working itself seems pretty yang to me though i do suppose as an inanimate object any metal could be considered yin.

[A. G. Maisey]

In the National Musium in Jakarta is a lingga taken from Candi Sukuh. A big lingga, nearly two meters long, and five feet around.

On this lingga is an image of a keris and alongside it an inscription, which says in part:-

"--- the sign of masculinity is the essence of the world---"

In the Nawanatya (14th century) we find:-

"---the criss, a token of manfulness, has its place at the front---"

In old Jawa the keris was given as an award to a man for displaying bravery in battle.

The keris is a yin object?

Interesting thought.


May I most humbly suggest that it could be useful to refrain from mixing Chinese philosophy with Javanese and European philosophy.

All three schools require extended periods of study in order to gain an adequate understanding of the concepts involved; it is already difficult enough for most of us to try to understand Javanese philosophies, working from a European base. Let us not make things even more difficult by introducing Chinese philosophies.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

May I most humbly suggest that it could be useful to refrain from mixing Chinese philosophy with Javanese and European philosophy.

All three schools require extended periods of study in order to gain an adequate understanding of the concepts involved; it is already difficult enough for most of us to try to understand Javanese philosophies, working from a European base. Let us not make things even more difficult by introducing Chinese philosophies.

I think i must agree. Recouncilling these different schools of can be quite impossible. All one needs to do is look at the differences in the Chinese and European concepts of the 5 elements to see that aspects of these systems are not very compatable.

[PenangsangII]

Dear all,

I think we cannot discount the possibility of Chinese influence with regards to the natural balace of Yin & Yang. We are aware that the Chinese have sailed around the world long before Christopher Columbus discovered America.