![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]()
This is my first one of these. I have heard them called "massive" and the word is descriptive. 33" long. Remains of koftgari.
I like two basic categories of swords. High end ceremonial and "users." This is a "user." It has a presence that does not really come across in the pictures. I feel certain that this one has been in combat. Your comments? I know nothing about these swords. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
i have a similar one without the decoration and a plain wood grip - the moment you pick it up you know it's the real thing, made for battle and not for decoration.
![]() it sings - the pathan who carried mine may have owed fealty to the one who carried yours ![]() mine didn't come with a scabbard tho, i''l have to find one or have one made. always nice to see pics of them as a complete weapons system. i see your scabbard comes with the original late 19th c. pathan electricians tape . you may want to replace that with something more modern, like leather...... ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
|
![]()
If you have not, then try to make a ’search’, and you will see there are quite a number of threads. The blades are mostly alike, some decorated and some not, but notice the very different hilt forms.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]() Quote:
Is there any tribal/geographical connection? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
|
![]()
Excellent observation Jens! It does indeed seem that most variation is in the hilts, and as Ariel has suggested, quite possibly tribal or regional variation.
Kronckew, LOL! ![]() On the mounts, I notice the familiar circled dot motif that is typically seen on weapons from Afghanistan and surrounding regions. From what I understand, this is a simple, but quite ancient geometric motif that is often found in these regions. Can anyone elaborate more on this motif? I have seen the same on lohars as well as buzkhashi whips. All the best, Jim |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
|
![]()
Yes Ariel, but it should also be remembered that there are variation of the different types. I think the different types come from different clans, although I can't prove it.
Yes Jim, the circle decoration is interesting, and as you mention, also seen on other Afghan weapons. Jens |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
|
![]()
Nice piece Bill, Given the walrus hilt & clearly original koftgari I would be surprised if it isnt wootz.
Spiral |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
|
![]()
A fancy piece , just closed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 637
|
![]()
The circle motif are eyes of god basically coming from pre islam birds looking down at people. from the construction I would date to very end of 19th century
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Posts: 301
|
![]()
Is done (IMHO) with a drill bit that makes a hole the diameter of the circle. the old bits have a guide tip in the center, like a modern Forstner bit.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]()
These circular patterns are common to several cultures. I would guess that with a compass-like tool, or a drill bit similar to a Forstner bit.
I have these patterns on an Afircan Lega/Wega ivory carving and a bichwa. There is an interesting thread about these swords comparing them to some other weapons. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=khayber According to Artzi, mine could be from Persia / Mideast area because it has walrus grips. Here is a pciture from that thread showing a khayber with koftgari. The koftgari traces on mine could indicate it once had a blade decorated like Artzi's Last edited by Bill Marsh; 24th May 2007 at 03:12 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
|
![]()
Thanks very much Bill, Ward, Montino and Jens for the observations on the circle motif. While the geometric symbol is obviously so simple, it really does seem consistant in these regions, although it does occur in other spheres as well.
I agree with Jens, I think there may well be a tribal or clan association with the varied hilts on the Khybers. I think the wider spectrum of Afghan weapons such as the shashkas and shamshirs may be more regionally oriented. What say you all? ![]() Ariel, could you possibly say more on the hilt types you have observed? all the best, Jim |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]()
On the question of wootz. I am not versed with staining, and want to do this right. I have heard that some stains will harm koftgari. Is there any factual basis?
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]() Quote:
Are you going to try to etch your sword in the first photo? I do not think it's wootz unless you see something that's not pictured? I would just leave it be if there is no real sign of the wootz pattern. Lew |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,599
|
![]() Quote:
Lega/Wega ivory statue (6" high) (Liberia - South Africa) Ivory handle dagger - possibly North Sudan Sword original to this post -- removed 19th c electrical tape ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 215
|
![]()
There was another interesting old thread about the marks found on many of the blades: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001999.html
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
|
![]()
In notes concerning the circle and dot motif there are suggestions that this decoration is sometimes found on inscribed objects of the civilization around Ellora c.6th c. India. A bone amulet c.3rd c. B.C. is noted as Sonkh, Mathura and is further described as interpreted to symbolize a shield (termed 'd.ha......uh not dha guys !
![]() With connotation as a protective device such as a shield, it is suggested that its appearance on an amulet for protection would seem plausible. Not a great deal of detail, but interesting concept. Best regards, Jim |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|