Can you Identify Horn hilts from photographs and or sellers descriptions?

spiral · 13th December 2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The translucence could also be an area of wear making it lighter .

Is this a Yat hilt ?

Thats true Rick, I just got the impresion it was flash photography, but I think you hit the nail on the head.

Or a combination of both factors perhaps?

Spiral

BSMStar · 22nd December 2006, 06:59 PM

As a professional that works with color for a living, let me give you my two cents worth.

I am going to try to avoid things like metamerism and appearance (as much as I can) so:

1. Color is not as cut a dried as you may think.

2. As human observers, we have bias… that is we may not see color the same way (an extreme example would be... one of the forms of color blindness).

3. Cameras have bias.

The first example below is where two colors appear to match by eye, but not by digital camera.

Appearance and angle of view are everything… the second example (the grays) is of three samples at two angles of view: Which are the same color and which are not?

A word to the wise… judgments on color solely from pictures can be a dangerous thing, especially if you are thinking about thumping down a sizable stack of cash. You be the judge.

For all I know (just from the above pictures), the item could be plastic. Only the person taking the picture knows for sure.

katana · 22nd December 2006, 07:42 PM

Hi BSMStar,
very interesting angle and the 'grey' examples brilliantly demonstrate your point. I understand that 'colour' is the reflected light waves from an object....so it also makes sense that the type/source of light could easily alter the shade/hue of that colour......So colour would be a possible 'problem' in ID'ing certain materials.

Could the 'texture' of a material be falsely 'interpreted' (either deliberately or unknowingly) by a camera..assuming the image is clear?

Flavio · 22nd December 2006, 08:32 PM

Hi Katana, could you post a picture of the entire knife? Thanks

BSMStar · 22nd December 2006, 08:54 PM

Hi Katana,

We are entering an area that can get very technical in a hurry…

You are getting into areas that are appearance related… the appearance of an object consist of the following factors (I will list the most important ones):

1. Gloss
2. Texture
3. Color
4. Opacity
5. Shape
6. If it is metallic or not
7. The angle of illumination

If you change any one of these factors or attributes, you change the appearance. Please note that color is an attribute of appearance (most people tend to intuitively think that appearance is an attribute of color). A lot of issues that are interpreted by untrained observers are thought to be due to difference in color… when actually, the color is the same.

So, to answer your question… yes, texture will influence the appearance of an object… to a human observer or a camera. The gray examples shown above are of differences in color, gloss and texture.

[A little secret... the chip with the textured blob of paint on it, they are the same color]

You may want to refer to this thread - this was plastic and had a few forumites confused...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=582

BSMStar · 23rd December 2006, 08:14 PM

Hey Katana....

You may want to refer to the link that I added to the above. The scabbard and the hilt are plastic... photos are a bad way to discern the material, and the color is even more meaningless.

The silver part of the scabbard is made of polystyrene (like models are made from). The brown parts are a denser plastic, possibly polyethylene. There are casting bubbles (a give away) all over the brown plastic as well as there is a casting seam… but you have to look closely at the piece to see them. A detail that may be missing in auction pictures.

I hope you find this useful...

Happy Holidays!

katana · 24th December 2006, 09:53 PM

Thanks BSMstar,
that link demonstrates your point perfectly.....the pictures endow the knifes furniture/fittings with much more quality ( ie looks to be carved bone/Ivory/tusk when it fact it is cast plastic.)

Jens Nordlunde · 24th December 2006, 10:12 PM

Hi BSMStar,

I think we are comming to an interesting point - please comment on the light - the Kelvin light, direct and indirect light?

22nd December 2006, 06:59 PM	#2
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	A Picture is worth a thousand words? As a professional that works with color for a living, let me give you my two cents worth. I am going to try to avoid things like metamerism and appearance (as much as I can) so: 1. Color is not as cut a dried as you may think. 2. As human observers, we have bias… that is we may not see color the same way (an extreme example would be... one of the forms of color blindness). 3. Cameras have bias. The first example below is where two colors appear to match by eye, but not by digital camera. Appearance and angle of view are everything… the second example (the grays) is of three samples at two angles of view: Which are the same color and which are not? A word to the wise… judgments on color solely from pictures can be a dangerous thing, especially if you are thinking about thumping down a sizable stack of cash. You be the judge. For all I know (just from the above pictures), the item could be plastic. Only the person taking the picture knows for sure. Attached Images

22nd December 2006, 08:54 PM	#5
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hi Katana, We are entering an area that can get very technical in a hurry… You are getting into areas that are appearance related… the appearance of an object consist of the following factors (I will list the most important ones): 1. Gloss 2. Texture 3. Color 4. Opacity 5. Shape 6. If it is metallic or not 7. The angle of illumination If you change any one of these factors or attributes, you change the appearance. Please note that color is an attribute of appearance (most people tend to intuitively think that appearance is an attribute of color). A lot of issues that are interpreted by untrained observers are thought to be due to difference in color… when actually, the color is the same. So, to answer your question… yes, texture will influence the appearance of an object… to a human observer or a camera. The gray examples shown above are of differences in color, gloss and texture. [A little secret... the chip with the textured blob of paint on it, they are the same color] You may want to refer to this thread - this was plastic and had a few forumites confused... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=582 Last edited by BSMStar; 23rd December 2006 at 07:59 PM.

23rd December 2006, 08:14 PM	#6
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hey Katana.... You may want to refer to the link that I added to the above. The scabbard and the hilt are plastic... photos are a bad way to discern the material, and the color is even more meaningless. The silver part of the scabbard is made of polystyrene (like models are made from). The brown parts are a denser plastic, possibly polyethylene. There are casting bubbles (a give away) all over the brown plastic as well as there is a casting seam… but you have to look closely at the piece to see them. A detail that may be missing in auction pictures. I hope you find this useful... Happy Holidays! Last edited by BSMStar; 23rd December 2006 at 09:47 PM.

24th December 2006, 10:12 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi BSMStar, I think we are comming to an interesting point - please comment on the light - the Kelvin light, direct and indirect light? Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 25th December 2006 at 10:57 AM.

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22nd December 2006, 07:42 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi BSMStar, very interesting angle and the 'grey' examples brilliantly demonstrate your point. I understand that 'colour' is the reflected light waves from an object....so it also makes sense that the type/source of light could easily alter the shade/hue of that colour......So colour would be a possible 'problem' in ID'ing certain materials. Could the 'texture' of a material be falsely 'interpreted' (either deliberately or unknowingly) by a camera..assuming the image is clear?

22nd December 2006, 08:32 PM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Katana, could you post a picture of the entire knife? Thanks

24th December 2006, 09:53 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks BSMstar, that link demonstrates your point perfectly.....the pictures endow the knifes furniture/fittings with much more quality ( ie looks to be carved bone/Ivory/tusk when it fact it is cast plastic.)