INTERESTING Ottoman (?) sword.... very old... comments?

Valjhun · 9th December 2006, 02:30 PM

Thanks Jim,

I also thought of a pre-schiavona type of venetian sword when saw the immages. Especially the pommel talks in that favour, beeing a predecessor of the typical Schiavona cat head pommel.

The sword is not in my possesion (yet). I'll do my best to get that medieval piece in my collection. Then I'll attach more photos.

It was found underground with a metal detector in the italian region of Northern Friuli (not so far away from Venice).

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2006, 05:29 PM

Thats excellent Valjhun!!
Outstanding provenance, exactly what is needed in studying history and development of weapons. Thank you very much for sharing this, and please keep us posted OK.
All the best,
Jim

ariel · 9th December 2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Thanks Jim,

I also thought of a pre-schiavona type of venetian sword when saw the immages. Especially the pommel talks in that favour, beeing a predecessor of the typical Schiavona cat head pommel.

The sword is not in my possesion (yet). I'll do my best to get that medieval piece in my collection. Then I'll attach more photos.

It was found underground with a metal detector in the italian region of Northern Friuli (not so far away from Venice).

When this sword is repatriated to Slovenia

send us better pics. Great find!

Andrew · 10th December 2006, 05:22 AM

Crescent and star at the forte? What's that about, I wonder?

Jim McDougall · 10th December 2006, 09:11 PM

Hi Andrew,
I think thats where the initial heading for this thread came from, with the obvious association of the familiar Ottoman symbols. I think this marking is likely from the Italian maker, at least as noted in Boccia & Coelho (op.cit.) it is shown that the crescent did appear on Italian blades, in this case from Venice. Still looking for one that incorporates the star. The complexities of all these markings probably derive from workmans guilds, but later became associated with talismanic symbolism in varying degree.
All the best,
Jim

Andrew · 11th December 2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Andrew,
I think thats where the initial heading for this thread came from, with the obvious association of the familiar Ottoman symbols. I think this marking is likely from the Italian maker, at least as noted in Boccia & Coelho (op.cit.) it is shown that the crescent did appear on Italian blades, in this case from Venice. Still looking for one that incorporates the star. The complexities of all these markings probably derive from workmans guilds, but later became associated with talismanic symbolism in varying degree.
All the best,
Jim

Doh! That's what I get for posting without looking.

Jim McDougall · 11th December 2006, 09:49 PM

Sorry I sounded so blunt in my response Andrew, not intended.
Its not like you aren't in circuit breaker overload trying to keep up with all the activity here, so quite understandable

All the best my friend,
Jim

Matchlock · 8th July 2012, 05:14 PM

Hi Valjuhn,

I found your thread only today.

As Jim has sad, this is a Venetian sword, which is confirmed by your statement that it was excavated near Friuli. It is of Venetian make and dates from the late 15th c., ca. 1480-90.

You will identify your type of sword among a group of four displayed on the right in a photo from the Doges Palace at Venice; they are dealt with in Armi Bianche, 1975 (attachments).

Medieval Venetian swords of slightly differing, more common type are referred to in
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...114#post142114

Best,
Michael

8th July 2012, 05:14 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Valjuhn, I found your thread only today. As Jim has sad, this is a Venetian sword, which is confirmed by your statement that it was excavated near Friuli. It is of Venetian make and dates from the late 15th c., ca. 1480-90. You will identify your type of sword among a group of four displayed on the right in a photo from the Doges Palace at Venice; they are dealt with in Armi Bianche, 1975 (attachments). Medieval Venetian swords of slightly differing, more common type are referred to in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...114#post142114 Best, Michael Attached Images

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9th December 2006, 02:30 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thanks Jim, I also thought of a pre-schiavona type of venetian sword when saw the immages. Especially the pommel talks in that favour, beeing a predecessor of the typical Schiavona cat head pommel. The sword is not in my possesion (yet). I'll do my best to get that medieval piece in my collection. Then I'll attach more photos. It was found underground with a metal detector in the italian region of Northern Friuli (not so far away from Venice).

9th December 2006, 05:29 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,795	Thats excellent Valjhun!! Outstanding provenance, exactly what is needed in studying history and development of weapons. Thank you very much for sharing this, and please keep us posted OK. All the best, Jim

10th December 2006, 05:22 AM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Crescent and star at the forte? What's that about, I wonder?

10th December 2006, 09:11 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,795	Hi Andrew, I think thats where the initial heading for this thread came from, with the obvious association of the familiar Ottoman symbols. I think this marking is likely from the Italian maker, at least as noted in Boccia & Coelho (op.cit.) it is shown that the crescent did appear on Italian blades, in this case from Venice. Still looking for one that incorporates the star. The complexities of all these markings probably derive from workmans guilds, but later became associated with talismanic symbolism in varying degree. All the best, Jim

11th December 2006, 09:49 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,795	Sorry I sounded so blunt in my response Andrew, not intended. Its not like you aren't in circuit breaker overload trying to keep up with all the activity here, so quite understandable All the best my friend, Jim