Crooked knives

Tim Simmons · 29th October 2006, 09:33 AM

As mentioned earlier I got this just to make a comparison. It is not really something I am interested in. I have since discovered there seems to be quite a following for this sort of thing. I wonder if members here have any thoughts on these knives, which I have found are used for a great many purposes. The one I post is clearly an old piece. I imagine this is an English woodsman's crooked knife. Interesting info here-http://members.aol.com/mocotagan/freeholder.html

Rich · 29th October 2006, 11:35 AM

Actually, that's not a "crooked knife". It's a late 19th-early 20th C
farrier's hoof knife. I've four of them, all made by George Wostenholm, IXL,
Sheffield, but most major English makers made them. I see them mislabeled
on ebay all the time. Those and old straight razor blades stuck into a
handle being passed as crooked knives. Genuine native American
crooked knives are not commonly seen on ebay, but I have seen a
couple over the years.

Rich

tom hyle · 30th October 2006, 05:44 PM

I am not sure that's correct. The division being drawn may be one that is not so sharp in reality. The crooked or canoe knife is a knife held tip down and edge toward the user, and its classic use is for carving hollows in wood. The handle tends to have a certain shape (perhaps suggested here, though no fully elaborated), which is, at least modernly, used to facilitate 2-handed use (steadier and more forceful). What is the origin of these knives? Does anyone know? The resemblance of many to hoof knives may be a telling one; many American Indian hatchet and knife styles were determined by what type of European blades were available. Certainly a hoof knife can be used as a canoe knife, and is prbably the most easily available type available to woodcarvers for such use (I have a left_ and a right-curved one). Perhaps this has always had a truth to it. Certainly knives of the general type that cannot be solidly attributed as to Indian or European are seen not infrequently. Similarly, it is generally/often hard to attribute home-made/frontier-made knives of other types in N America to a specific culture.

Tim Simmons · 30th October 2006, 06:18 PM

Thanks for your comments Tom. I have looked at hoof knives on the web they are all new and quite different. I am not saying this is not a hoof knife. The blade has been forged by and expert/skilled cutler but I think the handle has been fitted by the end user as the cut in the antler to me seem to simple careless? being very much longer on one side to be made by a skilled trade supplier. I could be wrong. There were and still are many rural wood crafts where this sort of draw knife would be ideal. Obviously I would desire it greatly if it was indeed an Indian or frontiers-mans crooked knife.

Rich · 30th October 2006, 08:33 PM

Here are three I*XL Farrier's hoof knives. These are shown and
described as farriers knives in the 1885 Wostenholm catalog reprint.
All are marked I*XL Wostenholm Sheffield.

Rich

Tim Simmons · 30th October 2006, 08:41 PM

Hoof knife it is them. Interesting how yours only have two rivits. Mine does not have any marks. Thanks all

spiral · 31st October 2006, 03:47 AM

I love fantasy & conjecture but empirical Evidence is a wonderfully usefull thing.

Spiral

29th October 2006, 09:33 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Crooked knives As mentioned earlier I got this just to make a comparison. It is not really something I am interested in. I have since discovered there seems to be quite a following for this sort of thing. I wonder if members here have any thoughts on these knives, which I have found are used for a great many purposes. The one I post is clearly an old piece. I imagine this is an English woodsman's crooked knife. Interesting info here-http://members.aol.com/mocotagan/freeholder.html Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th October 2006 at 09:48 AM.

30th October 2006, 08:33 PM	#5
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Here are three IXL Farrier's hoof knives. These are shown and described as farriers knives in the 1885 Wostenholm catalog reprint. All are marked IXL Wostenholm Sheffield. Rich Attached Images

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29th October 2006, 11:35 AM	#2
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Actually, that's not a "crooked knife". It's a late 19th-early 20th C farrier's hoof knife. I've four of them, all made by George Wostenholm, IXL, Sheffield, but most major English makers made them. I see them mislabeled on ebay all the time. Those and old straight razor blades stuck into a handle being passed as crooked knives. Genuine native American crooked knives are not commonly seen on ebay, but I have seen a couple over the years. Rich

30th October 2006, 05:44 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I am not sure that's correct. The division being drawn may be one that is not so sharp in reality. The crooked or canoe knife is a knife held tip down and edge toward the user, and its classic use is for carving hollows in wood. The handle tends to have a certain shape (perhaps suggested here, though no fully elaborated), which is, at least modernly, used to facilitate 2-handed use (steadier and more forceful). What is the origin of these knives? Does anyone know? The resemblance of many to hoof knives may be a telling one; many American Indian hatchet and knife styles were determined by what type of European blades were available. Certainly a hoof knife can be used as a canoe knife, and is prbably the most easily available type available to woodcarvers for such use (I have a left_ and a right-curved one). Perhaps this has always had a truth to it. Certainly knives of the general type that cannot be solidly attributed as to Indian or European are seen not infrequently. Similarly, it is generally/often hard to attribute home-made/frontier-made knives of other types in N America to a specific culture.

30th October 2006, 06:18 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thanks for your comments Tom. I have looked at hoof knives on the web they are all new and quite different. I am not saying this is not a hoof knife. The blade has been forged by and expert/skilled cutler but I think the handle has been fitted by the end user as the cut in the antler to me seem to simple careless? being very much longer on one side to be made by a skilled trade supplier. I could be wrong. There were and still are many rural wood crafts where this sort of draw knife would be ideal. Obviously I would desire it greatly if it was indeed an Indian or frontiers-mans crooked knife.

30th October 2006, 08:41 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hoof knife it is them. Interesting how yours only have two rivits. Mine does not have any marks. Thanks all

31st October 2006, 03:47 AM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I love fantasy & conjecture but empirical Evidence is a wonderfully usefull thing. Spiral