Help with the Moro Kris/Kalis/Sundang

[Interested Party]

I picked this one up a couple months ago and haven't had time to post till now. I believe it is a Magunindanao keris blade. Could the fittings be Maguindanao as well or Mindanao? The pictures are from the seller. Overall length is 25 3/4"/654mm, Blade length is 21 3/4"/554mm, Width 1/2" past gandik 1 1/2"/44mm, width just before tip 1 7/16"/37mm. The blade needs a clean and etch when I have time. The tip has snapped at some point possibly due to cold shuts forming while the smith attempted to create a chevron pattern at the tip from two twisted bars. There is a center ridge line that shows prominently for the first 2/3 of the blade then fades.
A


As far as the dress goes there is a single copper? asang asang with no signs of a second. The attachment for the asang asang is much less oxidized than the asang asang itself or the strap down the handle. Brass ferule. The wooden handle probably had rattan wraps at one point and there is a possibly silver collar with simple okir. The pommel cross section is ovate. There are two incised lines around its circumference. Attached are two similar pommels I found in the archives and links to their threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris

B
C


Any guesses on which Moro groups owned this kris? Does it show characteristics of different groups? Estimates on the ages of the components?\
A

[Battara]

This piece looks to me to be Maguindanao based on the base blade style and on the okir work. I would also place this in the 1910s-1930s?

The bottom one I would attribute to the same tribe, but perhaps a little earlier, like the 1890s-1900s?

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Battara

This piece looks to me to be Maguindanao based on the base blade style and on the okir work. I would also place this in the 1910s-1930s?

The bottom one I would attribute to the same tribe, but perhaps a little earlier, like the 1890s-1900s?

I edited the post and added A, B, C to the pictures so that we can more clearly discuss the items.

Battara thank you for the response. I believe this is referring to item A? "This piece looks to me to be Maguindanao based on the base blade style and on the okir work. I would also place this in the 1910s-1930s?"

While "The bottom one I would attribute to the same tribe, but perhaps a little earlier, like the 1890s-1900s?" Refers to C?

What time period was copper used for asang asang?

C .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ... A


Or Did I reverse your meaning?

In a separate post you said of C: "I say 1920s due to the style of okir work at the base (ganga) of the blade, and the fact that the ganga is not separated from the rest of the blade.

Also it is from the Maguindanao tribe."

I am asking question so that I can get an understanding of time periods for okir and other stylistic elements. And I have been curious about the moons and stemples patterns for a while.


I have wondered if A's blade isn't a different age than the dress.

[Battara]

Ok...........A is the older one. It has come to my attention that C might have a separate ganga, so maybe pushed back to 1910s-1920s.

On copper baka-baka clamps: I think it was more of expense and status rather than age. Often these baka-baka (the Mindanao term) were made of copper, silver, swassa/suassa (a gold/copper alloy), or steel.

[Interested Party]

Thank you.

Does swassa tarnish?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Thank you.

Does swassa tarnish?

Yes, but once cleaned it keeps shining for a very long time, it needs very long until it tarished again.

[Battara]

What Detlef said.......

The copper in the swassa makes it tarnish black over time. However, the gold in it delays it somewhat.