Single-edged blades with a ridge

[Ian]

Welcome to the Ethnographic Forum! Interesting question and I hope one of our knowledgeable members will be along shortly to help you.

[werecow]

Much like their smaller pesh-kabz cousins, Afghan Khyber knives usually have a T-section spine.

[bookandswordblog]

It seems like T-sections were popular from the Ottoman Empire to India in the 18th and 19th century? I wonder how they made them because that shape can be a pain to grind and polish.

Blades with a ridge a bit forward of the spine remind me of a classic five-sided katana blade. I don't understand blade engineering well enough to understand why katanas have that section. Guillaume Stanislaus Marey-Monge thought it made for good cutters.

[GePi]

Originally Posted by bookandswordblog

It seems like T-sections were popular from the Ottoman Empire to India in the 18th and 19th century? I wonder how they made them because that shape can be a pain to grind and polish.

Blades with a ridge a bit forward of the spine remind me of a classic five-sided katana blade. I don't understand blade engineering well enough to understand why katanas have that section. Guillaume Stanislaus Marey-Monge thought it made for good cutters.

The katana's five side blade geometry goes back to the earliest sabres and proto sabers from the Eurasian steppe peoples, possibly travelled from there to Japan via China.
My pet theory is, that it is the natural shape you arrive at when turning the concept of a diamond shaped double edged blade into a single edged blade, keeping it quite robust while reducing its weight.

Another weapon type I can think of with t-spine section are pichak knifes from Central Asian Turkestan.

[Bob A]

To belabor the obvious, T-spines provide greater rigidity while using less metal. A brilliant engineering solution, seemingly developed by the Turkic-Mongol crew.

Offhand, I can't think of it occurring elsewhere, but it's early, and my coffee has not hit my brain yet.

[GePi]

Originally Posted by Bob A

To belabor the obvious, T-spines provide greater rigidity while using less metal. A brilliant engineering solution, seemingly developed by the Turkic-Mongol crew.

Offhand, I can't think of it occurring elsewhere, but it's early, and my coffee has not hit my brain yet.

While Most of the examples with t-spines mentioned in this thread I agree are likely derived from Turkic blades (I think they appear on Ottoman Palas in the 17th century) I remembered an interesting much earlier example that I had to dig through my old pictures to find. I found this knife in a museum here in Germany, unfortunately I cannot recall anymore which museum exactly. With a bit of taper at the forte this could pass for a crude Afghan Peshkabz, but it was excavated in a local celtic burial mound dated to 600 to 500 BCE! Doesn't seem that the design really took hold back then, I haven't seen any other examples.

[Bob A]

Originally Posted by GePi

While Most of the examples with t-spines mentioned in this thread I agree are likely derived from Turkic blades (I think they appear on Ottoman Palas in the 17th century) I remembered an interesting much earlier example that I had to dig through my old pictures to find. I found this knife in a museum here in Germany, unfortunately I cannot recall anymore which museum exactly. With a bit of taper at the forte this could pass for a crude Afghan Peshkabz, but it was excavated in a local celtic burial mound dated to 600 to 500 BCE! Doesn't seem that the design really took hold back then, I haven't seen any other examples.

That's breath-takingly surprising!

Thank you for the information, and for your memories!

[not2sharp]

Originally Posted by GePi

While Most of the examples with t-spines mentioned in this thread I agree are likely derived from Turkic blades (I think they appear on Ottoman Palas in the 17th century) I remembered an interesting much earlier example that I had to dig through my old pictures to find. I found this knife in a museum here in Germany, unfortunately I cannot recall anymore which museum exactly. With a bit of taper at the forte this could pass for a crude Afghan Peshkabz, but it was excavated in a local celtic burial mound dated to 600 to 500 BCE! Doesn't seem that the design really took hold back then, I haven't seen any other examples.

Do pipeback examples count?

N2s