Sword I d needed please

[SidJ]

Hi
Looking for info on age and origin of this please. Gold mounts with missing details on hilt angels. Lenticular cross section springy steel sharp blade. Velvet scabbard. Thanks

[murph21]

Very cool! The decorative engraving imagery/style on the blade resembles a short sword I had posted here recently and what I was told by experts on this site that was probably done in France (possibly on a German-made blade). I'm no expert myself but your images reminded me of the one I have, so figured I'd mention it. I could be completely wrong and stand to be corrected!

[cel7]

I think it's a theater sword. Period approximately 1850-1930

[Multumesc]

If it was a theatrical sword, there was no need for the sword blade to be so beautifully and finely engraved!It is possible that it is a ceremonial sword for a dignitary, with the year 1414 engraved on it, commemorating an event.

[AHorsa]

The blade is a German hunting sword blade from the 18th century. 1414 is a common "magical" number on blades from the 17th and 18th century

Best
Andreas

[corrado26]

For all of those who are able to read and understand French here some information to the 1414

[Jim McDougall]

The blade on this is from a hanger of probably late 17th into 18th central-eastern Europe, The running wolf is an unusual artistically correct version of the running wolf of Passau, however seems associated with the arms making shops in Steyr Austria c.1620s.

The 1414 is an occult letter combination which is one of the most ubiquitous of the many four number groupings known. For many years it was commonly assumed to be a date by optimistic collectors.

These kinds of blades often found use by artisans producing fraternal and theatrical swords, which seems the genre this incarnation would be likely associated.

A nice blade and regardless of its composite circumstance, seems to have notable history.

[SidJ]

Thanks for your thoughts. Does the stag have any significance? Also the blade is peened to the hilt and the peen looks old so it has been in this form for a long time I think.

[Jim McDougall]

The stag does not have any particular symbolism outside of being related of course to 'the hunt'. The running wolf is rather perplexing as perhaps it might be associated with the crude chop mark type running wolf of Passau, and even more tenuously with the bushy tail fox in England's Shotley Bridge. Naturally there can be speculations which are indeed compelling.

The hunt was a very social and fashion oriented event, so the weaponry worn was a key element of status and flamboyance. This is why several references such as by Bashford Dean(1929) and Pierce Carrington (1937) are dedicated to court and hunting swords, and these are closely related in this sense.

According to Howard Blackmore(1971) the occult, magic and talismanic motifs and decoration used on blades of hunting weapons in the 17th c. transmitted to blades of other personal edged weapons as well.

While many blades were decorated with these kinds of motif by engravers and artisans in and around various blade making centers, some most notable were the 'caissagnard' from Nantes in France. These were notably found also in blades of Eastern Europe and it would seem including Steyr, Austria.

[urbanspaceman]

This extremely stylised fox has now appeared on at least six occasions that I am aware of; none of them being connected. The best suggestion of identity (from Peter Hudson) was that it may be from a local artist (Bewicke) who etched blades briefly for the Oleys in 1767 but that puts it outside of some of the extant examples. It certainly looks like his work though.







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[SidJ]

So it's a fox and not a running wolf then?

[AHorsa]

I don't know what animal it is exactly, but it is not connected to the Passauer wolf. Same as the deer it appears on hunting sword blades

[urbanspaceman]

I'm pretty certain it is a stylised "Bushy Tailed Fox" which was the Oley symbol after they left Solingen and came to Shotley Bridge. See my book for the development of the fox over the years.
This is a clue regarding the timing.
Here it is seen on a colichemarde smallsword that was recently restored:


Sorry about the blury first image, I screenshot it from the restorer's website video which is well worth a look: the address is simply wootz.co
Believe it or not they are here in the UK in Birmingham.
This silverwork is distinctly 1750/60s. The locket says "Dealtry"

The blade was machine-made in Shotley Bridge about the same time... as are all hollowed style colichemardes.

[Jim McDougall]

The thing about the bushy tail fox, and the Passau running wolf is that these were not the marks of blade makers but simply stylized device/symbols in occult, talismanic and magic conventions which were simply copied and improvised over many years.

These seem to have been well known across Europe with the distribution of blades from Solingen with the crudely chopped running wolf, often applied with this magical number '1414' (and some variations).

With the 'bushy tail fox', while of course not distinctly associated with the Passau wolf, the plausibility of imitation or similarly intended application cannot be discounted.

The image of the BTF (as we call it) seems distinctly a fox in the STEYR (Austria) image (1620), with the striped bushy tail...which in my view is nothing like a wolf tail. The artistic style is very much in the character of the incised figures of stags and sometimes other animals in hunting sword themes (as noted by AHorsa).

We have found that the BTF is a distinctly known image on some of the swords of Shotley Bridge (1680s-1700, and later) which seems in line with these markings attributed to Samuel Harvey c. 1750-80 in Birmingham.


In the last image Keith posted, that curious X with dots device appears associated with occult/ alchemical symbols with that particular one aligned with 'caput mortem' (deaths head) which metaphorically relates to an alchemical process. Dots and lines in various characters also align with 'antler numbers' which were arcane symbols used in Austrian regions.
This seems to fall in place with the Austrian 'fox' or wolf accompanying it.

I think it is important to remember that these kinds of markings, symbols, devices and conventions were not distinctly aligned with a particular maker, and apparently not confined necessarily to certain centers or regions, nor periods. Clearly these became traditionally carried forth by later makers.

[AHorsa]

Now I got it. That's very interesting. Thank you for explaining gentlemen!