Naval Caribbean rapier

[midelburgo]

I have always suspected the so called Caribbean Rapiers were actually not caribbean made swords but Spanish navy trooper swords.

Some underwater footage from the wreck of the galleon San Jose, sunk in 1708, backs this idea. The site is 600 meters deep underwater, so you get less oxygen for oxidation and less fauna for crusts.

See at 39 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTcKZgn7Whk

At the same wreck there are also examples of the officer version, the two shell rapiers.

See at 59 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW9TzSVvBUM


Identified naval wrecks are helpful for an ante diem datation of weaponry.

For example, in the war of the Spanish sucession (1700-1714) French supplied the weaponry of many Spanish regiments with French models from St Etienne and Charleville manufactures. However there are no survivors of these weapons and Spanish authors ignore the subject alltogether. But there are exceptions... underwater relics.

The picture show French naval sabres hilts found at the Nuestra señora de Guadalupe galleon, sunk in 1724.

This is the subject of a book I ordered recently.

[Jim McDougall]

You always bring up interesting topics! especially with Spanish weapons of the colonial period, which as you well pointed out some years ago, may well have been from Peninsular context as well though we presume cruder character suggests colonial mfg.

I am a bit puzzled about the 'Caribbean' rapier reference, are you referring to the cup hilt forms which often seem mounted with heavier 'arming' type blades? In the brief glimpse of the wreck site from 1708 in the linked Utube entry, there seemed an intact cup type hilt with the quillon across.

I could not make out the shell type versions. Are they in accord with these images attached? you indicate these are from the book shown by Mr.Wells, but going through that I could not find the images.

Please forgive my confusion, just wanted to be sure I am following.

I have always understood these much simpler versions of the often smartly embellished Spanish cup hilt rapiers, especially in the 'arming sword' character were indeed from makers in the colonies, hence being labeled 'Caribbean' in most references. I had always thought of the very crude example shown in "Arms and Armor in Colonial America" (Peterson) which I cannot seem to find an image of, were the typical examples of these forms.

However, I later found that better quality examples but still relatively austere were also deemed 'colonial'.

Attached are images of one with what appears cross hatched ebony grip, and my humble example which as had a crude bone grip refurbished.

Regarding use of these kinds of swords aboard Spanish vessels, I had understood there were small contingents of soldiers aboard vessels, especially those with valuable cargo, including precious metals.

Not surprising that Spanish authors do not refer to the sources of these arms whether France or Solingen. As noted, these munitions grade arms were seldom preserved and ended up as scrap or repurposed.......the exception as always, the in situ wreckage of these vessels.

[Hotspur]

Great stuff!

I have one of the French swords and have found a few more. It's super to have a good date for them.

Cheers
GC

[Hotspur]

David, of The Royal Sword shared his at one point and I saved that set

[Hotspur]

They are almost peas in a pod. The Rose hangers, from a century later are very similar