Twisted rods

[Gustav]

Dear Kerislovers,

today an interesting blade was auctioned. The sheath likely is not made for it. What are your thoughts about the origin of it - East Java, Bali, or Lombok?

Is there something about such Pamor Tangkis, with two rods on one, and one rod on other side?

[Battara]

Based on what I see, I was thinking on Bali.....

[A. G. Maisey]

Interesting thing you've posted here Gustav.

I'm sorry, but to make any comment on this I would need to handle it, & even then I might not be able to understand what I would need to understand before commenting.

In respect of overall perceived point of origin, yes, this does imply Bali.

[RobT]

Hi All,

Please consider this observation in light of my relative ignorance of Indonesian keris but I count 8 luk and the center ridge appears to wander off point. Could the blade have been shortened?

Sincerely,
RobT

[A. G. Maisey]

Rob, like a lot of other things with the keris, what you see is not what you get.

The picture shows how we count luk now.

But luk have been counted in different ways in different times & places.

A bloke by the name of "Maisey" has hypothesized that the keris as it had developed during the Mojopahit era in East Jawa had waves (luk) introduced into its form as a type of hierarchical indicator. This hypothesis was founded on information provided by a Bali-Hindu priest, and comparison with still existing ways in which hierarchical indicators within the Balinese socio-cultural fabric are applied now, & have in the past, been applied.

After the Islamic domination of Javanese society, and the separation of Balinese socio-cultural norms from Javanese socio-cultural norms a different method of wave count was introduced by the now Muslim overlords. The reason for this was that it was now necessary to wean the populace of Jawa away from the old Hindu-Buddhist & indigenous systems of belief and bring them under the new Islamic umbrella.

The keris was not only a weapon, it was very much more, and its symbolism was far too intertwined with the old systems of belief, so certain things needed to change. One of those things was the way in which the waves of a keris blade were counted. The new overlords did a similar thing with the Javanese wayang, & for the same reasons.

The above is an over-simplification of a simplification.

This will give a slightly better picture:-

https://kerisattosanaji.com/interpre...e-keris-page-1

even this more complete text only gives a part of the story, there is more in a chapter I contributed to a book of philosophy that was published a couple of years back, but really, I, or somebody else, needs to give some time to trying to get the whole story out there in one piece.

[A. G. Maisey]

Here is the picture.

[Gustav]

Gentlemen, thank you!

There is this blade in the National Museum of Denmark, EDb 16. Alan, we once argued, if it has one rod on one side, and two on the other. Difficult to see, because the blade is polished in Europe. If yes, it would have the same configuration of Pamor - one twisted rod on "outside", two on holders side.

Of course it likely comes from different cultural context.

[A. G. Maisey]

Possibly.

[David]

I don't know. I am inclined NOT to see a Balinese blade here. I would be interested in knowing what aspects of this Blade point to Bali for those that think so.
Gustav, do we have a blade length for this keris?

[RobT]

Alan Maisey,

Thanks for your response. I realize that there should be a ninth luk as you indicated. The problem I had was, although the center ridge appears to curve to show luk nine, the blade edges don’t. That was what prompted me to wonder if the tip of the blade hadn’t been modified.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Gustav]

David, there was only the overall length given - 61 cm. So I think, the blade length could be about 40 cm or just a little bit more.

[A. G. Maisey]

Rob, there almost never is a visible 9th luk in a keris, Javanese, Balinese or otherwise, the final luk at the leading end of the blade is an imaginary luk, put there because the number of luk MUST be a MALE number, that is, an uneven number. It must be a male number because the keris itself is a male entity.

If the luk of this blade were to be counted in the Hindu-Javanese manner then the luk count would be 7, which is the number of TRUE luk in this blade, but because Javanese society has been the dominant society in the region for so long, Javanese societal norms have replaced some other norms over time, this is something that other peoples in the region have been complaining about for a very long time.

So now the Islamic count dominates.

When this blade was made, the maker would have been following a pattern that would have required the point of the blade to be offset a specific distance from a vertical line beginning at the center point of the pesi (tang) at the point of its entry to the blade body (or alternatively, the gonjo) and proceeding to the point of the blade. To achieve this offset it would have been necessary to return to the forge and use hot-work, or if he was lucky, to use stock removal only. In any case, the offset dominates the required work.

This blade has suffered erosion from the time it left the maker's hands, that erosion has taken a few millimeters from its original length, but it has not been intentionally shortened by a sufficient amount for it to lose a full luk, this can be very easily seen by simply looking at proportion & what we refer to as "pawakan" (overall visual perception).

The above is the reason that the central weld line is not central to the blade edges.

A keris maker, be he an empu/Empu/mpu or a pandai keris or a pandai besi will in 99.9% of cases be working to a required pattern. This might not have been the case more than 500 years ago, but in more recent times it has been the case. Keris makers do not just pick up their tools & make whatever they please, they always have certain parameters to work to, & have had for a very long time.

[A. G. Maisey]

Gustav, in respect of your post #7.

I have now had a chance to examine my photographs and notes of EDb16.

I cannot recall that we had an argument about the way in which this pamor had been produced, but we probably did discuss it, I say this because in my notes I commented:-

"The pamor in this K. is skillfully manipulated"

as you have remarked, this pamor pattern was very difficult to see, it did not come through in my photographs, which were not particularly big images, I was using a Canon S95 & in raw, this produced images that were adequate for what I was doing at the time, but even with more modern (this was 2012 I think) & more sophisticated equipment, I doubt that the pamor could have been captured.

In fact, that pamor was so difficult to see that I sketched the motif, & here below is that sketch. I've forgotten what my impressions were at the time, but looking at the sketch, my impression now is that if a bar was used to produce this pamor, that bar was probably tightly twisted & then bent into a series of "S" bends, something similar a lawe setukal pamor, but in different orientation.

This was a large, strongly made keris, ample evidence that by the 17th century smiths in Jawa did have more than adequate skills to produce very refined blades.

After that visit to the museum's stored collections I did exchange some correspondence with the curator there, & in that correspondence I was advised that this keris was in the collection from at least 1674, possibly earlier.

[Gustav]

Alan, thank you for the insights on EDb 16.

Two more pictures from the auction house, a better view for the grasp of Blumbangan side, and the Walang Sinudhuk side of the tip.

[Gustav]

An update:

blade length: 36,8 cm. Gonjo length: 8 cm. It isn't Keris Lombok, the question is - East Java or Bali?

It has an old, very smooth finish, which is commonly associated with Bali, yet in the first part of 19th cent. such finish was possible also on East Javanese Keris.

Sheath likely is made for the blade, blade is evenly sunken in, inside of sheath is not fiddled with recently, sheath is on small side, yet acceptable for Balinese Keris.

Kendhit on hilt is natural.

[Gustav]

With sheath.

[A. G. Maisey]

If I apply the Surakarta tangguh indicators to this keris blade, it is unmistakably Madura --- which makes it East Jawa.

[David]

Here is another Bali dressed keris with pamor tangkis. I am curious what the consensus might be on the origins of this blade. It is perfectly fitted to the sarong so clearly this dress was made specifically for the blade. Length is jusrt shy of 38cm.

[A. G. Maisey]

This is a brief summary taken from Surakarta sources of indicators for a keris blade made in Madura:-

coarse iron,

thick pamor, distinct step from iron to contrasting pamor material ( this is not evident when a blade is polished),

rotan (rattan) shaped cross section,

rather upright,

penitis/penatas (this is the absolute point) is too small,

distance from final luk to point is long,

gonjo is ugly-rather straight, looks awkward, buntut urang narrow & small,

gandhik is short, low, small, thin,

usually no tikel alis,

very small kembang kacang,

blumbangan not well defined,

odo-odo rarely found,

kruwingen shallow if it exists at all,

wadidang runs on middle line

Madura work is overall very poor work, only the work of Mpu Koso is any good, Mpu Macan was also good, but his production was very small.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is a summary of a summary, & that initial summary was compiled from my notes for my guidance, more as memory hooks than as a guide book.

The above is the way in which a very highly respected ahli keris in Surakarta during the period from about 1970 through to about 2010 would look at and assess characteristics in order to form an opinion on whether or not a keris blade had been made in Madura. It was not, is not necessary to get a 100% agreement, the opinion is formed upon balance of characteristics. The period I have named is what I know for certain from personal experience, but if we go back to earlier sources we will find similar indicators mentioned.

Historically Bali has had strong ties with Madura, & still does. King Baturengang had the desire of conquest & colonisation, but this did not eventuate, however, from the late 16th century, & seemingly continuing for a very long time thereafter, there were a number of small Balinese incursions into Madura, and there are some small areas of Madura where the inhabitants are of Balinese mixed descent.

It is not at all unusual to find Madura & Javanese keris in Balinese dress. Additionally, Bali had a large part of Lombok under its control for many years, and Balinese keris made in Lombok are virtually impossible to differentiate from Balinese keris made in Bali, keris used in Balinese dress but not made by a Balinese mpu can sometimes be identified, or rather given the probability of having been made in Lombok.

[Gustav]

Yes, I also thought - East Java/Madura.

Unusual in that Madura context for me actually is the Pamor - from what I see from Madura it normally is coarse, broad thick layers, somewhat wild even if well controlled. This one is really minuscule work.

Also Kanyut seems a bit long, but this is likely an older blade.