Revolutionary War era side knife/dagger

M ELEY · 18th June 2025, 09:10 PM

The Nathan Starrs always did have that curious 'cant' to their blades as well. I feel on my canted blade that it started out life as a truly massive horseman's saber, like several canted examples in Nuemann's guide, but was repurposed/clipped and made into a cutlass either during the Rev War or possibly post-1800 for the War of 1812 era. I imagine the cant on a cavalry sword would have helped with the cleaving effect when riding down an enemy. As far as on a cutlass-type blade, it really does aid in the swing, but it is a little cumbersome. Cutlasses weren't made for any 'Errol Flynn' fighting moves!

I remember owning an old 19th c. manual on how to train simple sailors how to fight with them. It was like Step#1- Raise your cutlass! Step#2-Chop the bastard! There were a few defensive blocks and a little footwork, but that was it! A simple heavy killing tool used in tight quarters where there was no fancy footwork and try not to hit your own fellows when swinging!

CutlassCollector · 19th June 2025, 10:00 AM

Nice old knife, it's always surprised me the way files are repurposed for other uses, even today.

I see an old friend there! I love these old cutlasses as well, nothing fancy just unadorned weapon.

Lets not forget the clip point continued into the late 19th century on the Klewang (see swap forum) and into the 20th on the 1917 US Cutlass, which is almost identical.

M ELEY · 20th June 2025, 12:50 AM

Agreed, David. These Dutch klewang were indeed state of the art when it came to cutlasses. Even though they are past my collecting era, I have seriously thought about adding one to my collection someday. I know Wayne was also a big fan of these types-

Triarii · 24th June 2025, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

The Nathan Starrs always did have that curious 'cant' to their blades as well. I feel on my canted blade that it started out life as a truly massive horseman's saber, like several canted examples in Nuemann's guide, but was repurposed/clipped and made into a cutlass either during the Rev War or possibly post-1800 for the War of 1812 era. I imagine the cant on a cavalry sword would have helped with the cleaving effect when riding down an enemy. As far as on a cutlass-type blade, it really does aid in the swing, but it is a little cumbersome. Cutlasses weren't made for any 'Errol Flynn' fighting moves!

I remember owning an old 19th c. manual on how to train simple sailors how to fight with them. It was like Step#1- Raise your cutlass! Step#2-Chop the bastard! There were a few defensive blocks and a little footwork, but that was it! A simple heavy killing tool used in tight quarters where there was no fancy footwork and try not to hit your own fellows when swinging!

The canted grip is likely to support aligning the grip to the point, which supports thrusting, though curved blades are less than ideal for that. It's seen on other C18th and early C19th weapons.

M ELEY · 24th June 2025, 06:48 PM

Thank you, Triarii, for your comments. I had seen other swords from the 18th with the cant, but many seem to believe this construction only came about post 1800. Thanks for the verification of 18th c. examples. Geoege Neumann had several such swords in his guide to Rev War swords-

Triarii · 25th June 2025, 04:24 PM

I'll qualify my 'C18th' as late C18th, so not far off your 1800 date. Can I find the pictures of the examples I saw... nope. I recall a canted hilt on a so-called 'flank officers sword' by Read of Dublin, so last part of the C18th ie before the 1803 pattern appears.

Jim McDougall · 25th June 2025, 06:49 PM

Then there is this oddball Ive had about 45 years. I had always regarded it as an early variant of the 1796 light cavalry saber (in fact in was included in an article on such variants by Eric Troldhuus of the Danish Arms and Armour Society in the 90s). In some Caucasian sabers such as the skirted shashka, it seemed perhaps some of the ethnic influences such as Tatar from these might have come into play. However that assumption would be pretty tenuous.

What is even more interesting on this is the extremely parabolic shamshir blade with the pipeback blade somewhat popular in early British sabers. In this early period from the time Henry Osborn was developing the regulation British light cavalry saber of 1796, there were considerations of tulwars, shamshirs and other ethnographic forms, so perhaps this might have been some sort of prototype,...so many mysteries!

M ELEY · 27th June 2025, 04:28 AM

I remember this amazing sword you posted in the past, Jim. I swear I saw one extremely similar in an old 90's sword catalog from our friend in Illinois.

I'll have to try and track that one down. In the mean-time, thanks everyone for the feedback. The canted blade examples are indeed interesting. Nathan Starr is associated with these types as already mentioned. So are the Virginia Manufactory swords of the early Federalist period ca. 1805-10.

25th June 2025, 06:49 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,848	Canted hilt Then there is this oddball Ive had about 45 years. I had always regarded it as an early variant of the 1796 light cavalry saber (in fact in was included in an article on such variants by Eric Troldhuus of the Danish Arms and Armour Society in the 90s). In some Caucasian sabers such as the skirted shashka, it seemed perhaps some of the ethnic influences such as Tatar from these might have come into play. However that assumption would be pretty tenuous. What is even more interesting on this is the extremely parabolic shamshir blade with the pipeback blade somewhat popular in early British sabers. In this early period from the time Henry Osborn was developing the regulation British light cavalry saber of 1796, there were considerations of tulwars, shamshirs and other ethnographic forms, so perhaps this might have been some sort of prototype,...so many mysteries! Attached Images

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18th June 2025, 09:10 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,228	The Nathan Starrs always did have that curious 'cant' to their blades as well. I feel on my canted blade that it started out life as a truly massive horseman's saber, like several canted examples in Nuemann's guide, but was repurposed/clipped and made into a cutlass either during the Rev War or possibly post-1800 for the War of 1812 era. I imagine the cant on a cavalry sword would have helped with the cleaving effect when riding down an enemy. As far as on a cutlass-type blade, it really does aid in the swing, but it is a little cumbersome. Cutlasses weren't made for any 'Errol Flynn' fighting moves! I remember owning an old 19th c. manual on how to train simple sailors how to fight with them. It was like Step#1- Raise your cutlass! Step#2-Chop the bastard! There were a few defensive blocks and a little footwork, but that was it! A simple heavy killing tool used in tight quarters where there was no fancy footwork and try not to hit your own fellows when swinging!

19th June 2025, 10:00 AM	#2
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 381	Nice old knife, it's always surprised me the way files are repurposed for other uses, even today. I see an old friend there! I love these old cutlasses as well, nothing fancy just unadorned weapon. Lets not forget the clip point continued into the late 19th century on the Klewang (see swap forum) and into the 20th on the 1917 US Cutlass, which is almost identical. Attached Images

20th June 2025, 12:50 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,228	Agreed, David. These Dutch klewang were indeed state of the art when it came to cutlasses. Even though they are past my collecting era, I have seriously thought about adding one to my collection someday. I know Wayne was also a big fan of these types-

24th June 2025, 06:48 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,228	Thank you, Triarii, for your comments. I had seen other swords from the 18th with the cant, but many seem to believe this construction only came about post 1800. Thanks for the verification of 18th c. examples. Geoege Neumann had several such swords in his guide to Rev War swords-

25th June 2025, 04:24 PM	#6
Triarii Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Bristol Posts: 165	I'll qualify my 'C18th' as late C18th, so not far off your 1800 date. Can I find the pictures of the examples I saw... nope. I recall a canted hilt on a so-called 'flank officers sword' by Read of Dublin, so last part of the C18th ie before the 1803 pattern appears.

27th June 2025, 04:28 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,228	I remember this amazing sword you posted in the past, Jim. I swear I saw one extremely similar in an old 90's sword catalog from our friend in Illinois. I'll have to try and track that one down. In the mean-time, thanks everyone for the feedback. The canted blade examples are indeed interesting. Nathan Starr is associated with these types as already mentioned. So are the Virginia Manufactory swords of the early Federalist period ca. 1805-10.