Dagger for identification and discussion

[Tordenskiold1721]

I am keeping an open mind to the possibility that this is an accompanying dagger to an 16th century Langes Messer / Kriegsmesser.

[Sajen]

Thank you all for these very interesting thoughts. If I may summarize, the knife's handle shape and construction can be dated to at least the 17th century, possibly even the 16th. One theory is that it's a shortened blade, but I personally doubt that. Hence my previous question about possible comparison pieces. However, while the pieces shown have the same/similar handle shape and construction, the blade shape is different in all of them.
Again, thank you all for your thoughts and knowledge, my own knowledge in this area is very rudimentary.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Just found a very similar example online, sadly without any further description, my search word was "bauernwehr"!

Found the source: https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/ind...19-bauernwehr/

[urbanspaceman]

Figured I may as well add what I have, although I can assure you all this is from early 1700s - so not really relevant, but I like to contribute what I can. More likely a domestic knife I suspect but... that said, it seems unlikely, having that grip.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Tordenskiold1721

I am keeping an open mind to the possibility that this is an accompanying dagger to an 16th century Langes Messer / Kriegsmesser.

This is a brilliant observation!! and Detlef, these topics are by no means typically in my field of study either....this is all a learning curve, and its amazing having everyone come in with observations.....outstanding!

Apparently the langes meisser (German =long knife) was a relatively short sword most commonly used in civilian sector, which seems rather unusual as described as a 'peasant' weapon. I think there may be more perspective here.

What is interesting is the protrusion from the guard, in this case the disc, is characteristic of the general design characteristics of the langes meisser, and called a 'nagel' (I had not known the term when Wayne mentioned it). This was a guard meant to meet the back of the hand in a fighting circumstance (aligning with Keiths comment just entered).
In my opinion, such weapons could be used in both domestic and defense purposes.
These type weapons from 16th century surely carried well into 17th in these kinds of pairings.

[Sajen]

Yes Jim, I agree, it's a very interesting discussion. After some further investigation I am positive that the knife is a so-called "Bauernwehr" or "Hauswehr" or "Rugger" and that it possibly can be dated back to the middle of the 16th century to the beginning of the 17th century. So Akanthus is correct to date it around 1700. And this in a great condition, the most examples I've seen online are excavation examples.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Tordenskiold1721

I am keeping an open mind to the possibility that this is an accompanying dagger to an 16th century Langes Messer / Kriegsmesser.

Thank you! Your and Wayne's comment points me in the direction of "Bauerwehr", "Hauswehr" and "Rugger" as to which the knife under discussion can be named.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

There are different handle forms, I guess that you can date them by the form but need further research in this direction, but all have the so-called "Nagel" (nail), by my example formed in a small shell disc, which should prevent a slipping down from the hand to the edge. My example is rather short, these knives could be much longer.
See also here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=bauernwehr