New Keris - It Spoke to me and said Help - Now What??

Alam Shah · 15th July 2006, 05:34 PM

The hilt ring of the bugis-influenced blade seems too big for the hilt. However, overall it's a nice keris. Congratulations!

Mick · 15th July 2006, 09:18 PM

Bill

I suspect that the Balinese Keris is a small one. It is a new piece and the workmanship on the blade is not especially fine.

sabertasche · 16th July 2006, 12:26 AM

Hi all, here is a size comparison of the two Keris in my collection. Still no luck trying to get the hande off the larger keris. It is possible that they used a resin to secure the two parts? I'm a little hesitant to heat up the two to soften the resin and get the handle off.

Maybe the handle has shrunk onto the handle???

Greg

Rick · 16th July 2006, 03:06 AM

I'll raise the voice of semi ignorance here and say that to me the entire piece looks Buginese ... except for the ukiran .

Just what makes this ensemble Sumatran ?

Educate me guys .

BluErf · 16th July 2006, 05:00 AM

Actually, its the dress that differentiates the Sumatran Bugis from the Sulawesi Bugis. Its very difficult to put down in writing what the differences are, and I would admit, you probably won't be able to tell all the differences from looking at 2D pictures.

Blade-wise, the forging technique and material and very similar, though Sumatran Bugis kerises tend to be finer. Sulawesi kerises are generally more 'awkward' looking, but of course, there are always exceptions.

1st pic - Sumatran/Straits Bugis
2nd pic - Another Sumatran/Straits Bugis
3rd pic - Sulawesi Bugis
4th pic - Sulawesi (Buton) Bugis

Alam Shah · 16th July 2006, 06:10 AM

Blade-wise, it looks more like a Straits Bugis blade. But then, the Bugis did move quite a bit within the Malay Archipelago that it had influenced Sumatra, Peninsular Malay and Riau blade forms. A subtle clue that could tell them apart is the blade materials used. The cross-section and some minor details can assist too but not definitively. It had been discussed before that, to classify the breakdown by region is near impossible due to the mix and match across the archipelago.

Mudi · 16th July 2006, 09:45 AM

Yes I agree much confusion keris Sumatra and keris Bugis. This keris from Pak Sabertasche is Sumatra and not Bugis. Second keris is keris Bali. Pak BluErf say

Actually, its the dress that differentiates the Sumatran Bugis from the Sulawesi Bugis.

Sorry but no thing like Sumatran Bugis. Bugis only south Sulawesi people.

Sorry also I not agree with picture words

1st pic - Sumatran/Straits Bugis
2nd pic - Another Sumatran/Straits Bugis
3rd pic - Sulawesi Bugis
4th pic - Sulawesi (Buton) Bugis

All these keris from Sumatra. No keris here Bugis.

If I make problem I am sorry. For me no mistake keris Bugis asli with keris Sumatra asli. They are cousins family but enough difference to see. OK to not believe what I say. Ask someone else from Indonesia that know keris what they say.

15th July 2006, 05:34 PM	#1
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	The hilt ring of the bugis-influenced blade seems too big for the hilt. However, overall it's a nice keris. Congratulations! Last edited by Alam Shah; 16th July 2006 at 05:10 AM.

16th July 2006, 12:26 AM	#3
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Hi all, here is a size comparison of the two Keris in my collection. Still no luck trying to get the hande off the larger keris. It is possible that they used a resin to secure the two parts? I'm a little hesitant to heat up the two to soften the resin and get the handle off. Maybe the handle has shrunk onto the handle??? Greg Attached Images

16th July 2006, 05:00 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Actually, its the dress that differentiates the Sumatran Bugis from the Sulawesi Bugis. Its very difficult to put down in writing what the differences are, and I would admit, you probably won't be able to tell all the differences from looking at 2D pictures. Blade-wise, the forging technique and material and very similar, though Sumatran Bugis kerises tend to be finer. Sulawesi kerises are generally more 'awkward' looking, but of course, there are always exceptions. 1st pic - Sumatran/Straits Bugis 2nd pic - Another Sumatran/Straits Bugis 3rd pic - Sulawesi Bugis 4th pic - Sulawesi (Buton) Bugis Attached Images

16th July 2006, 06:10 AM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Blade-wise, it looks more like a Straits Bugis blade. But then, the Bugis did move quite a bit within the Malay Archipelago that it had influenced Sumatra, Peninsular Malay and Riau blade forms. A subtle clue that could tell them apart is the blade materials used. The cross-section and some minor details can assist too but not definitively. It had been discussed before that, to classify the breakdown by region is near impossible due to the mix and match across the archipelago. Last edited by Alam Shah; 16th July 2006 at 04:39 PM. Reason: remove link... (simplify)

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15th July 2006, 09:18 PM	#2
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Bill I suspect that the Balinese Keris is a small one. It is a new piece and the workmanship on the blade is not especially fine.

16th July 2006, 03:06 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,384	I'll raise the voice of semi ignorance here and say that to me the entire piece looks Buginese ... except for the ukiran . Just what makes this ensemble Sumatran ? Educate me guys .

16th July 2006, 09:45 AM	#7
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	Yes I agree much confusion keris Sumatra and keris Bugis. This keris from Pak Sabertasche is Sumatra and not Bugis. Second keris is keris Bali. Pak BluErf say Actually, its the dress that differentiates the Sumatran Bugis from the Sulawesi Bugis. Sorry but no thing like Sumatran Bugis. Bugis only south Sulawesi people. Sorry also I not agree with picture words 1st pic - Sumatran/Straits Bugis 2nd pic - Another Sumatran/Straits Bugis 3rd pic - Sulawesi Bugis 4th pic - Sulawesi (Buton) Bugis All these keris from Sumatra. No keris here Bugis. If I make problem I am sorry. For me no mistake keris Bugis asli with keris Sumatra asli. They are cousins family but enough difference to see. OK to not believe what I say. Ask someone else from Indonesia that know keris what they say.