1576 dated musket - unknown marking

[Raf]

Presumably you are aware that the Apethorpe arms and armour were in part from the collection of the mid nineteenth century collector Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick, Bart. via Dr. William Meyrick, and Leonard Brassey, Esq., MP.
Adds interest.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Raf

Presumably you are aware that the Apethorpe arms and armour were in part from the collection of the mid nineteenth century collector Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick, Bart. via Dr. William Meyrick, and Leonard Brassey, Esq., MP.
Adds interest.

MOST salient addition Raf!!! Meyrick was one of the key sages of arms and armor study whose venerable writings were the foundation of the Kernoozers
and DeCossey, Dean, Laking et al.

The very notion that this example was from these esteemed collection would suggest that more on these markings must exist in the notes and works of these gentlemen. It seems as if I have seen this very arrangement, if not even the date or close to it in similar fashion on another gun.

How I miss Michael (Matchlock).

[Jim McDougall]

Just realized where I'd seen that serpent mark...it was a guild oriented marking used by armorers in Milan, and seems to have been used in some variation. In some references it is suggested to be a 'makers' mark, however I think that is an assumption rather than to a recorded maker.

It seems that when a date is applied to a sword blade openly, without other lettering, marks etc. that perhaps it is a commemorative, possibly placed to recall an important event date to the owner (this 1576 date seems scratched in by the owner with the erratic scripting).

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...How I miss Michael (Matchlock)...

Indeed Jim !

[fernando]

The catalogue:

[adrian]

Thank you gentlemen, I had encountered mention of Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick in connection with the Apethorpe Hall collection but had no realised that in itself was significant. I will get in touch with the Royal Armouries, later this year, to request a search of the catalogue they hold of that collection.

[Marcus den toom]

For a similar dating style on a barrel, see:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=Graz

[Jim McDougall]

Finally found it!
In Gyngell p.75 ("Armorers Marks", 1959), listed as a 16th c Milanese swordmakers mark c.1600.
This of course does not limit to sword makers as armorers handled all forms of weaponry, and as earlier noted, this marking may well simply apply to some sort of guild representation or simply be intended as to quality etc.

The snake symbol as I earlier noted was from Milanese heraldry in the city arms and derives from such a device from Constantinople in 11th c. becoming adopted in Milan as the 'biscione' (grass snake?) as a heraldic charge.
By 16th century, the Sforza dynasty had the allegoric device in their arms.

These stylized and simpler versions of the snake seem to have been used in variation rather in the manner of the 'Passau wolf', or the 'sickle marks' og Genoa, but are by no means apparently as ubiquitous.

In "European Makers of Edged Weapons, Their Marks" Staffan Kinman, 2015, p.106 this very snake mark (from Gyngell) is shown attributed to the famed Ferara brothers, of Belluno. That city was under Milanese jurisdiction then.

In the entry with similar date markings on the barrel, 1581 and 1583 it is noted by the mark the barrel was by Georg LAMPL (?) of Graz (Styria).
In Styrian references I can only find a George LINL working 1577-1608.

It would seem that guns from various provenance were stored in the Styrian armory at Graz (built 1642-1645) in remarkable quantity. This would seem to impair my earlier suggestion that perhaps these dates added to the barrels were added at the Styrian armory.....UNLESS these were applied later of course as they entered the armory.

While the Milanese snake mark noted here with the Gyngell entry as well as the Kinman, both to swordsmiths are with the serpent straight.......and the example in discussion has a coiled tail, this may suggest an armorer perhaps indeed in Graz, using his interpretation of the snake as a quality indicator. This would be in the same manner that Styrian blade makers so often used the so called "Genoan' sickle marks. or Solingen used the Passau wolf.

As always, like to keep it brief